Nervous Nellies...

[Randall Nott]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but there has been a terrible blunder in marketing here. It has been 23 hours since I visited the booth at NAB and I can't stop drooling. If I'm extrapolating this correctly, then the entire market for these new cameras will be dead from dehydration before the cameras are even released.

Also very nice to meet many of the regulars on this forum and put faces to names. You guys are the best sales tool for RED, especially Gibby.

 

[Scott M]

Just wanted to make sure this was being seen over and over again. Thanks for adding some sense to the mix as usual Steve. The "I can't comprehend it so I'm going to try and shame it" routine has gotten old here.

Wish I could be there, here's to what's in store :cheers:

FWIW, I thoroughly agree with your post...

Scarlet
3k, 120fps, RAW for $3k - and "keyboard experts" complain about a fixed zoom lens? And they complain that "real pros" never would use a fixed lens camera that had the option of automatic or manual shooting modes. That's news to the hundreds of thousands of professional DSLR shooters in the world who routinely change between full manual, part auto, and full auto shooting with their cameras. Pro television camera operators also routinely use some auto features and some fixed lens cameras for certain genres of production. Isn't it time for "manual only/fixed lens only" cine types to acknowledge that technology and media convergence have enabled everyone to shoot in multiple styles and sub-styles of camera work? Common sense should be re-named un-common sense, because a lot of the posts I've reviewed this evening on RED User show me very little common sense. I can think of tons of ways to integrate Scarlet into our national television productions. To me and our extended company, and our alliance companies, the announced tech specs of Scarlet are great. Scarlet will be another potent arrow in the quiver of talented and open minded professionals - while "if it doesn't have a removable lens" quibblers spend what could be valuable production time pontificating on these forums about what a "real professional camera" should have on it.

We'll buy at least six Scarlet cameras.

RED ONE
Our extended company owns six RED ONE cameras, with another on the way. We don't feel "betrayed" in the slightest by the announcement of the 5k EPIC camera. In fact, we're stoked about that! Some of our RED ONE's will be traded into EPICs, and some will simply be upgraded and live out their production lives as important tools in our tool box. Our RED ONE's have been fantastic cameras for us - used for seven months now in a wide variety of professional productions. We love 'em...

EPIC
We're salivating over this. Bring it on! 5k, smaller, more mobile, and on and on and on. We can think of a myriad of uses for EPICs. We'll buy at least four of them - maybe more. On some productions we may integrate EPICs, RED ONEs, and Scarlets.

RED Ray
Way cool...
We back up now to drives and LTO. To have the option to quickly back up to RED Ray, and to have the RR unit available for instant playback, etc. will ease the management of our files and give us a lightweight, mobile "deck" - something we can really use.

--------------------------

Having been around RED since before there was even a RED company, I am unbelievably proud of how much RED has been able to accomplish in such a short period of time - a little over two years. IMO it is stunning...

Having spent a few hours in the RED NAB tent today talking with RED Team and analyzing the breadth and depth of the new products, I can say I couldn't be happier.

I think its time for the wannabes, trolls, FUDmongers, and malcontents to either offer up constructive suggestions based on real world production experience - or stop wasting everyone's time here. In this industry, as in most, there are three types of people:

1) Those who say something can't happen
2) Those who make something happen
3) Those who wonder what the heck is happening

RED Team - thanks for being Type 2 above. There's a lot of us motion media industry professionals out here who are also Type 2, and who are more than happy to put your products to extensive professional use.

 

[Häakon]

RED Ray
Way cool...
We back up now to drives and LTO. To have the option to quickly back up to RED Ray

RED Ray utilizes a delivery codec, not something you'd want to use for backup. I'm still in shock that they've figured out a way to make 2 hours worth of 4K look acceptable on a 8GB disc, but they've produced miracles before. The point is, though, that regardless of if it looks decent from an audience perspective, the amount of compression that is going to be necessary to facilitate such a task is going to render it ineffective for backup purposes.

 

[Buck Forester]

Re: fixed lens vs. interchangeable lens. I happen to disagree on this matter. Better to have a purposeful lens for this camera than to open it up to what? A Nikon mount? How dumb. What would you shoot wide with? Every Nikon lens ever made is not designed for a 2/3" sensor! What are you guys thinking?

Amen, because I have a whole array of Canon "L" glass lenses and if you put a Nikon mount on the Scarlet, then I'd be pissed, ha ha!

 

[Clint Johnson]

If Scarlet was going to have a S35 sized sensor then an SLR mount would have made sense (my vote would have been to out sourcing that to Birger) but seeing as how it is a 2/3 sized sensor then I can see how a purpose built fixed lens makes sense.

An 8x zoom that is specifically designed for this sensor and held to professional cine standards (Jim says professional and I don't doubt him) would make better images than any other reasonable option.

I would suggest the equivalent of 15-120mm with close focus. Optical image stabilization would be nice if it worked as well as Canon IS or Nikon VR... not so much with the Sigma OS. The camera is so small and light that it would be welcome when hand holding at the tele end of the zoom.

The most important question I have for Jim is when can I put down my deposit?

 

[red i wanabe]

AAwww Man, Jim Do realy have to wait a whole year before we can give you are moneys.

 

[Redoscopy]

I agree with both camps about having and not having a fixed lens on the Scarlet. But if I had to lean one way or the other, boy it sure would be nice to be able to slap all my PL mount Super 16 Zeiss lenses on a Scarlett, toss it in my backpack and head out into the wild. Scarlett could be the "Super 16" to the RED One's "35mm" approach, with the Epic leading the larger format charge. I would rather see Scarlett enter the Super 16 arena than the HVX arena. But should it have a fixed lens, then PS Technics, Redrock Micro, Letus35 Extreme and similar adapters will have another camera to play with. And I'm quite sure that you will see those hybrid animals in mass. Either way Jim and the team at RED truly are the pioneers of this watershed moment in digital imaging that we've been experiencing over the past couple of years. My thanks and most sincere praise.

 

[Chris Newman]

I would suggest the equivalent of 15-120mm

I agree, please make it WIDE! Around 7-8mm on the wide end.

The only compelling reason I have to want an interchangeable lens is so I could put on an S16 T1.9 prime and make the most of the 2/3" depth of field. I will most likely buy one anyway, but I would pay extra for this option. (It would be nice to not have to consider using a Redrock Micro, etc.)

 

[Chris Newman]

If RED has trouble fitting it in a pocket, they could keep their word by giving it a removable lens and having us put the lens in one pocket and the body in the other.

 

[Daniel García]

Just ask the question. But people here don't ask first, they just assume the worst and hit the "Submit Reply" button.

Ok, Jim, I'll ask what, for me, is the most important question:
Does the new Mysterium sensor generation, AKA the Mysterium X, have a rolling shutter?

THAT and the post-production problems that are due to software inmaturity are the biggest problems that Red One has in my opinion. The post problems will be solved in time, no doubt.

If the new sensors have solved the rolling shutter problem, then the new Red Cameras are/will be virtually perfect!!!

PS: Count me as another vote for the widest Scarlet that's possible. Let those who want tele's add a converter.

 

[Jannard]

The read-reset of Mysterium X will be improved by about 40%. That means significantly less skew.

Jim

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Cool, so this will apply to the whole RED line, then? RED One after a sensor upgrade and the two newly announced cameras? Is that correct? Lighter camera's will definitely benefit from improved resistance to rolling shutter artifacts.

Thanks.
Later,
Jason

 

[Kevin Halverson]

The read-reset of Mysterium X will be improved by about 40%. That means significantly less skew.

Jim

EXCELLENT!!!

That is, in my opinion, some of the best news of all the stunning good news that has been released so far this week. 40%? Way better than I could have even hoped for!

 

[Medavoym]

Skew is a minor thing...

More importantly, will the new Mysterium X offer better dynamic range? And if yes, when you upgrade the RED ONE with the new sensor, will you be taking advantage of that or the DR will still be limited by the other (old) hardware inside the camera?

 

[Andy Jackson]

Skew is a minor thing...

Seriously? For whom?

 

[Teague Kennedy]

I am not nervous because I know..............

1. That even though Red One is no longer the flagship product, Red will not hold back on it's progress/ development hoping to sell more of the higher priced Epics. (See Red One used to be flagship and I figured it would be for at least a couple years)

2. This is not true:
The term "renders obsolescence obsolete" meant only in the "mid tier." If you want true obsolete obsolescence you might want to trade up (2.5 times more clams)

Sorry to bust your balls Jim. I'm still a believer. I infinitely respect what you have done, and understand the realities of business (business owner myself), but just want to let you know that we're nervous because we were really excited that you were putting everything into our product. (sure it is first of a kind and you should have charged more to begin with and I should be happy and shut up) But now we are mid-tier. Sure we can trade up, but if the price is 40,000 (rumor) then it is a different budget and not really a fair "upgrade" for an un-obsolete camera. I know that you need to tap into all markets, and I don't fault you for that.......But understand that when we are nervous it is because many of us spent much of a year's salary to be part of the Red philosophy, and we are worried that our little "revolution" has become mid-tier.

Still Epic sounds cool. Love your work. Understand our "nerves." : )

 

[Jannard]

Seriously? For whom?

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.

Nonetheless, it is improved in Mysterium X, which will be is Epic, Scarlet and the RED ONE upgrade. Improved DNR is another bonus of the newer sensor.

Jim

 

[Jannard]

I am not nervous because I know..............

1. That even though Red One is no longer the flagship product, Red will not hold back on it's progress/ development hoping to sell more of the higher priced Epics. (See Red One used to be flagship and I figured it would be for at least a couple years)

2. This is not true:
The term "renders obsolescence obsolete" meant only in the "mid tier." If you want true obsolete obsolescence you might want to trade up (2.5 times more clams)

Sorry to bust your balls Jim. I'm still a believer. I infinitely respect what you have done, and understand the realities of business (business owner myself), but just want to let you know that we're nervous because we were really excited that you were putting everything into our product. (sure it is first of a kind and you should have charged more to begin with and I should be happy and shut up) But now we are mid-tier. Sure we can trade up, but if the price is 40,000 (rumor) then it is a different budget and not really a fair "upgrade" for an un-obsolete camera. I know that you need to tap into all markets, and I don't fault you for that.......But understand that when we are nervous it is because many of us spent much of a year's salary to be part of the Red philosophy, and we are worried that our little "revolution" has become mid-tier.

Still Epic sounds cool. Love your work. Understand our "nerves." : )

Sorry to strongly disagree with you. RED ONE will be in our lineup for many years and get all the attention it deserves, starting with a sensor upgrade in 2009.

I think those of you that think RED ONE should be infinitely upgraded at all costs are spoiled. Actually, we are letting you do that!

Epic will be a limited production model. It has a new and completely different architecture. And we are still allowing you to upgrade from the RED ONE! The cost of upgrade is steep because the development cost very is expensive.

What exactly do you think you are entitled to and are not getting? A reasonably priced sensor upgrade or an expensive full upgrade? Come on... starting to be irritating.

Sorry. Just my point of view.

Jim

 

[CJ Roy]

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.

Not trying to start anything, but what are the solutions that the DP's are using when dealing with police strobes and those sorts of issues? If there's a solution, I'm all ears.

I worked with a few crew members of Game, the week before last, and I can't wait to see the film after talking with them. Crazy shit... in a very good way. I would think there'd be skew all over the place in that flick, after what they put the cameras through.

-CJ

 

[Andy Jackson]

By every DP we have talked to after doing tests on the RED ONE and choosing to shoot features, music videos, commercials, etc.

Nonetheless, it is improved in Mysterium X, which will be is Epic, Scarlet and the RED ONE upgrade. Improved DNR is another bonus of the newer sensor.

Jim

Jim, maybe you misunderstood me... I was saying that a significant skew reduction should be a huge deal for any serious shooter... which I believe is exactly why you improved it. I was just scoffing at the fact that Medavoym would toss such an improvement to the side like that.

-Andy