Need some friendly advice...

[Clint Lealos]

Hey fellas, I shooting a commercial and we have a scene where several photographers are snapping off pictures with flashes going off like crazy. Think paparrazzi when some famous walkes out of a building. We plan on shooting 100fps and 25fps. Last time I tried this with the Red One we had a lot of problems, because modern flash units are so fast that only part of the frame gets the flash. We had to add flash frames in post to hide it, but it wasn't ideal. I remember reading that the solution was slow decay flash bulbs from the past. The flashes will be coming from cameras that are in the frame and it can't look like someone is using a camera flash from the 40's. Are there any other solutions to this common problem? Are there any modern flash units that have long enough flashes for what we are trying to do? How do you guys get around this problem? Please don't tell me to get a motion mount... I'm in Istanbul and its not an option, unless you know someone with one Thanks for your help in advance. I know somebody has a solution. Peace.

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

Have you tried experimenting with different shutter speeds?

 

[Clint Lealos]

I haven't done any tests yet. Getting some flash units in tomorrow to test with, but I'm hoping its that simple

 

[Eric Santiago]

I would opt for post fx on that, but that depends on your budget.

I too am curious as how to get around this (for a future project).

 

[Erich Roland]

need a "global shutter" camera. the new Red "Motion mount" should also do the trick. Sony f55 has global shutter built in.

 

[Russ Fill]

Longer exposures will help, IE larger shutter angles. But it won't completely fix the issue at 100fp. Or you could slow down the frame rate a bit and the combination might work.

 

[Florian Stadler]

F55 has a global shutter or try to get a motion mount. You will lose 1.6 stops with the motion mount due to the built in polarizer.

 

[Glen Powell]

I agree and disagree with everyone… While I would aesthetically want the flash frame provided by a global shutter -

Most everybody at home; like 99.999% of humans watching TV, associate the partial flash frames with paparazzi. They've been 'trained' by the nightly onslaught of Celebrity TV (i.e., ET, Access Hollywood, TMZ, etc) who all use rolling shutter cameras.

Sooooo I guess my point is… don't get worked up by a non-issue? I mean making perfect camera flash frames may look good / great / proper to those of us who live in this film making bubble; it may not register or look right with the viewer at home. Sometimes it's a losing battle to go against popular perception.

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

Not sure if this is an option creatively - or if you can get your hands on them where you are - but I have had pretty good success with Lightning Strikes Paparazzi flash heads. Down side is - they are "relatively" costly. Plus they would have to be used off camera. But basically you get a pulse flash for as long as you hold your finger on it. So you make the flash bursts ever so slightly longer (still looks like a flash) and you don't get half frame exposures.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Thanks for the advice so far! I should clarify one thing... its not actually a scene with paparazzi or famous people. That was just the easiest way to describe the amount of flashing I would like to capture in this scene. Since its a pretty big bank commercial over here, I don't think the agency would be cool with the partially exposed frames. But who knows, maybe they wouldn't even notice? I'm gonna try a work around first, but post may be the way to go until I can get my hands on a motion mount. I'm gonna look around for those Lightning Stikes flash heads for off camera effects... thanks Dylan. I remember once seeing a gaffer out here with the old school lightning strike manual shutters for lamp heads. I can always give that try. If anyone else has any ideas I'm all ears. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Motion Mount....

 

[Glen Powell]

I guess I was thrown by your initial post - to me it sounded like you wanted that famous / paparazzi vibe.

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Clint, I have been experimenting with the RED sync port. You can trigger a strobe from your camera (just need a receiver at your flash units) and avoid half exposed frames. There are some remote triggers that allow a fine delay setting to tune the sync timing, but for a single flash everything should work. I´m sure you could rent some pocket wizards in Istanbul and try that out. Have fun!

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Ted Parkes]

Larger studio type flash units have longer flash durations. You can also try a couple off camera to supplement the ones in shot. The more power the longer the flash duration. Speedotron units are longer then most. Brauncolour , Profoto are the shortest.

 

[Nick Gardner]

I would have art department or SFX get some flash guns and flash bulbs. They look great, last like 3-5 frames have a nice attack and decay. They are the bomb. I want to use them for everything now ;-) These guys can hook you up, but if you are not in a hurry you can get them cheaper on ebay.

http://www.flashbulbs.com/flashgun.htm

Nick

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Larger studio type flash units have longer flash durations. You can also try a couple off camera to supplement the ones in shot. The more power the longer the flash duration. Speedotron units are longer then most. Brauncolour , Profoto are the shortest.

True, but usually still too fast, it´s a matter of sync timing. In addition these units don´t freeze the motion which is supposed to be part of the effect? Same with Nicks flashbulbs, if they cover multiple frames they are very slow. I also thought you wanted the strobe unit being visible in your image.

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Shane Kelly]

Flash bulbs or an f55 . Or do the post work. The client will notice quarter frame flashes.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Ulf, thanks for the advice! I think I'll try and figure out this sync port for at least one flash that is in the frame on a camera.

Ted, thank you as well. I'll look into those larger units for off camera flashes or maybe I'll leave one in frame too.

 

[Marc Berger]

Larger studio type flash units have longer flash durations. You can also try a couple off camera to supplement the ones in shot. The more power the longer the flash duration. Speedotron units are longer then most. Brauncolour , Profoto are the shortest.

+1
Try older studio flash heads- the ones without generator, with the generator built in- normally you can find them with around 250WS in small portrait or pass photo studios. I really would try the older, non digital ones. Very slow flashes (I mean long during flashlight). I´m quite sure you´ll find them easier in Istanbul then the fancy, modern Profoto or Broncolor.

 

[Clint Lealos]

We are definitely shooting on Red's since the company owns a couple. LIke I said, the motion mount isn't an option unless someone knows of one already here in Istanbul and available for rent. I know the flashbulbs will look great in a wide shot (probably what we'll do), but in a medium or closeup its gonna look like a guy using a camera for the 40's. Maybe the sync port method on the close up will suffice. If we were to do it all in post, would it be better to not have any flashes at all in scene? Thanks.