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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Need Some Business Advice....

Tom said:
1. I'm not married and don't have a mortgage.
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Lucky man.

2. I can live in a tent and subsist on tuna sandwiches and Keystone Light for months at a time. :) :wink:
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Tuna sandwiches sound fine... But Keystone Light?? Really?

I don't know what to think about the concept. I think it's really cool, I just don't know about the marketing. Then again, I'm baffled as to the success of Sunrise Earth. See, it can be done. All I can say is there's some good ideas and advice in this thread. Shoot lots of cool stuff. Seek critiques advice and even investors based off of a short teaser and other marketing you can do. In the end, if no one bites the hook, you can always sell the DVD / Blu-Ray yourself and through Amazon or other channels, push to distribute on iTunes, etc..
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Tuna sandwiches sound fine... But Keystone Light?? Really?

I don't know what to think about the concept. I think it's really cool, I just don't know about the marketing. Then again, I'm baffled as to the success of Sunrise Earth. See, it can be done. All I can say is there's some good ideas and advice in this thread. Shoot lots of cool stuff. Seek critiques advice and even investors based off of a short teaser and other marketing you can do. In the end, if no one bites the hook, you can always sell the DVD / Blu-Ray yourself and through Amazon or other channels, push to distribute on iTunes, etc..
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Well lately I have been splurging on Miller GD 64! Plus my tuna aint the cheap stuff either. It's the Genova-brand in olive oil, and I use expensive whole wheat bread, so I'm not really the cheapskate I pretend to be! :)

Yeah, I definitely appreciate the advice on this thread. At the same time, I have never been a person who cared about the odds. I would be shooting this stuff anyway, for no money, because I love doing it. And I think quality work can find a way to market, one way or another.

I really appreciate the very specific advice about possible running times, certain PBS affiliates that produce, potential overseas venues, etc.

As of now I am planning to cut a 9-min trailer at the end of the summer to serve as a mega-trailer/stand-alone short. The only trouble is, the song is a Pink Floyd live tune, so I very seriously doubt that Floyd would grant me a festival license. But you never know. I will send it to them with the request.
 
Don't forget the local film commission and tourism boards, chambers of commerce, notable resident businesses, etc. of the places you'll be visiting for small cash grants and "assistance" (which may end up being more valuable than cash). Also you may explore possible sponsorships from equipment makers, travel companies, private organizations, etc.. Donations, contributions in exchange of credit, endorsements, what have you. Pass some of them Keystone Lights around and we'll keep feeding you ideas.
 
Tom said:
The only trouble is, the song is a Pink Floyd live tune, so I very seriously doubt that Floyd would grant me a festival license. But you never know.
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Based on reputation, David might, Roger won't, and Nick won't care. But you're right, you never know - and if Live 8 could happen, well, just about anything is possible.
 
mmost said:
Based on reputation, David might, Roger won't, and Nick won't care. But you're right, you never know - and if Live 8 could happen, well, just about anything is possible.
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and none of them are actually easy to get in touch with, so good luck getting a reply from them. Rick was, God rest his soul, an avid internet user and would reply to e-mails within the hour sometimes. I once did a montage of underwater timelapses to "Echoes" and low and behold, I tried contacting them out of the blue and Rick got back to me immediately and gave me permission to use the song (under a ton of restrictions, but he did nevertheless) I corresponded with him afterwards through the years, he was a nice, nice, nice guy...

Anyway, onto something else Tom, getting an endorsement from somebody famous might open up doors as well. Once you have your 5-10 minute promo, try sending it to known people in and out of the industry, asking them for a quick "opinion" that you can put on the sleeve. How about Ron Fricke himself? How about Coppola, who is very approachable, very supportive of young film makers and originally executive produced Koyannisqatsi? Having that ubiquitous "...an inspiring piece of work..." and a known name below it on your promo cover WILL go a LONG ways in opening doors. Make sure that whomever you approach is known for being supportive of up and coming film makers, which many people in the industry are.

We got an endorsement for one of our underwater documentaries once from James Cameron himself, through a common acquaintance and figuring that given his passion for the underwater, he wouldn't mind seeing our piece. He liked it, gave it a short but positive review and with that, we sold it to Nat Geo, whom to this day, several years later, still has not shown it anywhere in the world!!! So go figure...more food for thought...
 
:biggrin: I like this thread's positivity (if that's a word?!) :biggrin:
 
Tom,

Now is when I wish I can speak (write) better English. So I will do my best.

The following info is based on my experience with wildlife docs only.

The length of one hour nature documentaries for Nat Geo and Discovery are 51, 55, 58 minutes.
They will cut it down up to +/- 45 minutes if they have enough advertisers.
NEVER do a less of 50 minutes doc. It is almost impossible to sell…I have very good experience on that..trust me!!

“Blue-Chip” docs (One hour pieces) will sell from 150K to 800K depending how well known you are to the executives of the channels. Keep in mind that you will lose all the rights to your work.

Exhibit rights will go from 5K to 15K in the US and Europe. Also at the same time you can sell the exhibit rights to other venues from 1K to 5K. That one is better done trough distributors.

You can do a very good treatment and a 3-5 minutes pilot and send it to Nat Geo, Discovery, Smithsonian Networks or Thirteen WNET (PBS, Nature) hoping they will give you the chance to pitch your idea.

Here there is a couple of useful links:

https://www.ngcideas.com/

http://producers.discovery.com/

Also you can do my favorite, make your one hour doc, and submit it to the Wildlife International Film Festival, the Jackson Hole Wildlife Film Festival and/or the Wildscreen Wildlife Film Festival; go to this festivals and you will have the chance to talk face to face with the main executives of the channels, producers, distributors of the business. You will have the chance to go to BBQ, drink, expend a very nice time with all of them…..and make business!

Realscreen Submit in DC is becoming a good venue for non-fiction programming.

Probably the market for your project is not the American. European and Asian (NHK) channels are more likely to finance your project.

Tom,
Do you know the ABC/Nat Geo doc “The Rhythms of Life”?

This is one of my favorites Time lapse documentaries, unfortunately (for the ones that do not speak Spanish) the Spanish version is way better that the English one.
 
Christian, thanks for that valuable advice. Don't worry, your English is good!

I guess I will aim for a 50-min cut and start looking into submission guidelines for those nature festivals you mentioned. That sounds like a good place to start.
 
Tom said:
Mark, want to become my business advisor? :)

Hahhaha.. I'm so clueless.
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This is why you need a producer.

Tom you create some stunning visuals. You need a producer who has equal talent in order to get the best sale.

You focus on the art. Let them focus on the commerce.
 
Mike Prevette said:
This is going to sound pessimistic, but I really think a Barraka style film with no story, interviews, etc is going to be a very hard sell to any network that has advertisers. PBS more likely, but still tough sell.

In addition to all the ideas mentioned here. I'd look into a PBS station that partners on a lot of productions. KCTS is a good example. Years and years ago they got into HD (the first in the states i believe) and they started to make their "over" series (ie "over Washington" over japan" "over BC"). Basically these are loos documentaries about areas with beautiful HD aerial footage underneath narration. They sell the DVD's like hotcakes at PBS stores around the country.

http://www.channel9store.com/products.asp?dept=19

Best of luck, and congrats on the beautiful footage man!
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I have to agree. Even Baraka had a message. It was more than a string of beautiful images. You should be thinking about what kind of message you'd like to convey.

Perhaps you are already thinking about this...

I also like the other suggestion of "interviewing" yourself. Keeping a video diary. You can talk philosophy or tech...doesn't matter. An unexpected thread might come out of that. Which you may or may not include - at the very least it will make an excellent supplement to the DVD!
 
Tom said:
Christian, thanks for that valuable advice. Don't worry, your English is good!

I guess I will aim for a 50-min cut and start looking into submission guidelines for those nature festivals you mentioned. That sounds like a good place to start.
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Tom, I just PM you the contact information of an Executive of Programming & Production of an important American TV network, he was interested in one hour pieces.
 
Throwing an idea out there... maybe people would be interested in seeing your work on their cellphone as a video ringtone?

*A good chunk of the ringtone business is so sketchy...
 
Hi guys, I would like to resucitate this thread for two reasons.

First of all, how's it going Tom? I'm sure that we'd all love to hear about how the film is going.

Secondly, it looks like the feature I mentioned a couple of pages back may indeed become a reality. We're in the earliest of stages, scouting locations, finding out who to talk to for their expert opinions on the subject matter, etc.

Does anybody here have experience or knowledge regarding selling a one hour documentary to any british or european broadcaster?

In short, the documentary is about architecture and nature reclaiming abandonned areas. At this juncture it looks liek it will contain a large amount of timelapse sequences.

Any advice and help will be MUCH appreciated. Thank you guys in advance.
 
Hehe, I never thought this thread would see the light of day again.

Good luck on that documentary, Eren.

My 50-min film "These Short Days" is still moving ahead right on schedule. I've been sticking to the plan developed on this thread and other threads here. I leave in about a week for another 3-4 months of solid shooting around the Sierras and the American Southwest. This fall, I'm thinking of cutting an 8-minute mega "fundraising trailer." I've got the perfect song picked out already.

My most recent "Learning to Fly" reel/trailer for "These Short Days" has racked up 150,000 views on Vimeo already, which is making me think I should have tried to make it more of a fundraising reel.

:cheers2::patriot:
 
I'm very happy to hear that everything is going on track, Tom. I think that getting 150,000 hits on Learning to Fly WITHOUT the intent of making it a marketing piece will only speak stronger of the value of your film and the potential for it's audience.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank you for posting so candidly over here and for creating your own forums. Having shot timelapse for B-Roll on HDV and XDCAM EX cameras only, only now am I appreciating what I can do on the stills front.

Needless to say, I'm seriously considering purchasing the time machine and rotary table from Mumford. If im not too wrong, I could have a moco dolly for timelapses (incl shipping of parts, dolly parts, labour-I live in an apartment with no garage workshop, see) for under $2,000...

Best of luck to you Tom, in the mean time I'm off to do more research.
 
You could easily get a single-axis dolly made for 2 grand, including the time machine and one rotary, and then add more axes (like pan) as you need them. Just get a local blacksmith to help you with the dolly, since you don't have a garage. I have mine set up so I can easily put the mumford on my dolly, or snap it onto a tripod for simple moco pans.
 
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