Need help putting together a scarlet-w kit 20k budget

[Jonesy Jones]

Going back to audio. Someone suggested the little WC unit as an option, but I guess some weren't fond of that solution. Why? How clean is that option? If I were to send a Sound Devices mixpre into it would I get clean audio?

I was considering the Redvolt Expander or whatever just for the XLR's, but that puppy is pricey. I am really hoping to run my audio in camera. Are there any other slick audio solutions?

 

[Oron Cohen]

Tilta are suppose to come out with an XLR box similar to WC but with Phantom power that looks cool.
They also got a base expender with audio and other ports.
There are more option I'm sure.

 

[David Peterson]

Don't forget to factor in audio, lighting, and more! Especially as it seems you won't have access to any good local rental houses in your area or many crew members with this gear to work with you.

For instance for the bare bare minimum for audio (and this is not Scarlet-W equivalent in the audio world by any stretch of the imagination, that would cost several times more):

1x Zoom F8 = $1K
3x Saramonic UwMic9 x3 = $810
Saramonic TX-XLR9 = $150
RODE Blimp v2 = $300
Oscar SoundTech Lavaliers: 3x OST-801 + 1x TL-40 = $440
CAME-TV Carbon Fiber 5m Boom Pole = $140
Audio-Technica AT4053b = $600
RODE NTG3 = $700
Cables / Media / Power / Lav accessories = let's just say a nice figure to round it out of $360 (but this is lowballing it, can easily be more)

Total: $4.5K

And I haven't even touched G&E equipment, easily spend on that double or triple or more than what I just suggested for audio. You'll find money disappearing at every corner at a blink of an eye, for instance nobody here has discussed a tripod yet... easily $1K for one of those, or even several times more.

If you think you can set up an entire production house for filmmaking in your country around a Scarlet-W with a capital start up of $25K I fel you'll find it won't go as far as you hope.

Nothing wrong with maybe considering a RED Raven instead? (or even a Sony/BMD/Kinefinity/whatever)

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

Don't forget to factor in audio, lighting, and more! Especially as it seems you won't have access to any good local rental houses in your area or many crew members with this gear to work with you.

For instance for the bare bare minimum for audio (and this is not Scarlet-W equivalent in the audio world by any stretch of the imagination, that would cost several times more):

1x Zoom F8 = $1K
3x Saramonic UwMic9 x3 = $810
Saramonic TX-XLR9 = $150
RODE Blimp v2 = $300
Oscar SoundTech Lavaliers: 3x OST-801 + 1x TL-40 = $440
CAME-TV Carbon Fiber 5m Boom Pole = $140
Audio-Technica AT4053b = $600
RODE NTG3 = $700
Cables / Media / Power / Lav accessories = let's just say a nice figure to round it out of $360 (but this is lowballing it, can easily be more)

Total: $4.5K



And I haven't even touched G&E equipment, easily spend on that double or triple or more than what I just suggested for audio. You'll find money disappearing at every corner at a blink of an eye, for instance nobody here has discussed a tripod yet... easily $1K for one of those, or even several times more.

If you think you can set up an entire production house for filmmaking in your country around a Scarlet-W with a capital start up of $25K I fel you'll find it won't go as far as you hope.

Nothing wrong with maybe considering a RED Raven instead? (or even a Sony/BMD/Kinefinity/whatever)

Oh believe me, I didnt forget audio. Hence why I am in the process of finding some business partners to handle some of the cost for the other things. For right now my focus is on video and audio first........we are not as advanced as the US and other countries, but we do need to start somewhere. I want to keep it simple so that as a country we cant really afford to rent even basic things. There is one company in Nassau that owns a red epic dragon........but I will tell you first hand the only persons who are able to afford such a rental in this country are either working with foreign production houses or just have a lot of money to burn, thats just the truth. Most videographers shoot on dslrs for HD footage.

When I asked for this budget this was just for the scarlet-w, that will be my "baby" as we like to say down here. I have a few others who would join in but I wont get them involved until I am sure they are passionate about this as I am. I will be operating at lower than market, rental price just to get the local industry going........believe me I wish I could be raking in the money but I am taking a hit because I love my country.

However the list that you gave I will surely look into and keep on record. I have a day job that allows me to be very flexible so it helps. I have no kids, and a single 27 year old. I will push until I cant anymore. BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE INPUT.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Go for it man

 

[Oron Cohen]

to OP, In your starting post you said you want to follow your passion in Cinematography...now, I think most Cinematographers (me included) will agree, that Cinematography is mostly about lighting (I'm talking fiction here), with cameras, you usually choose the best one for the project.

assuming you do want to make fiction films, leads me (after following your posts) to believe that you are spending way too much money on a camera.

There are great camera system around for way less then 20K, I think you should consider limiting your camera budget to 10K aiming for a small camera and some decent glass, something like a used Scarlet-x or C300 used or even BM and put the rest of your cash buying used lights (so you get more), like: 1 Arri HMI 1.2/2.5 or similar, 1-2 par cans(cheap), a few Fresnels, 1-2 Kino's, some flags, nets and c-stands, I feel many people coming into Cinematography become obsessive to cameras because lighting scare the shit out of them, as they have no clue where to start, not saying it's you but the fact you haven't mentioned lightning is a bit strange to me.

You tell a story with light, so aiming to be a Cinematographer without having a decent light kit would not get you too far. Maybe for practice get any decent super35 sensor camera and practice, even a DSLR is fine. I strongly believe in advancing in steps. I would defiantly advice you getting lights over a fancy super expensive camera.

Sorry that I'm not joining this: "yes man, go for it" vibe, I do love RED cameras, and use them a lot, but I know that if you give me say a 5D mark III and small truck of light and grip, I'll take that over a RED with no lights any day of the week.

Don't want to spoil this for you, sure, go ahead and buy a camera, but I think you should stop thinking about buying "babies" and focus on the art, a camera would not make you a better Cinematographer , practicing lighting will get you there.

btw, from experience, what Indie films needs most are decent lighting kits...

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

to OP, In your starting post you said you want to follow your passion in Cinematography...now, I think most Cinematographers (me included) will agree, that Cinematography is mostly about lighting (I'm talking fiction here), with cameras, you usually choose the best one for the project.

assuming you do want to make fiction films, leads me (after following your posts) to believe that you are spending way too much money on a camera.

There are great camera system around for way less then 20K, I think you should consider limiting your camera budget to 10K aiming for a small camera and some decent glass, something like a used Scarlet-x or C300 used or even BM and put the rest of your cash buying used lights (so you get more), like: 1 Arri HMI 1.2/2.5 or similar, 1-2 par cans(cheap), a few Fresnels, 1-2 Kino's, some flags, nets and c-stands, I feel many people coming into Cinematography become obsessive to cameras because lighting scare the shit out of them, as they have no clue where to start, not saying it's you but the fact you haven't mentioned lightning is a bit strange to me.

You tell a story with light, so aiming to be a Cinematographer without having a decent light kit would not get you too far. Maybe for practice get any decent super35 sensor camera and practice, even a DSLR is fine. I strongly believe in advancing in steps. I would defiantly advice you getting lights over a fancy super expensive camera.

Sorry that I'm not joining this: "yes man, go for it" vibe, I do love RED cameras, and use them a lot, but I know that if you give me say a 5D mark III and small truck of light and grip, I'll take that over a RED with no lights any day of the week.

Don't want to spoil this for you, sure, go ahead and buy a camera, but I think you should stop thinking about buying "babies" and focus on the art, a camera would not make you a better Cinematographer , practicing lighting will get you there.

btw, from experience, what Indie films needs most are decent lighting kits...

Hehehe believe me I understand exactly what you are saying and I fully agree. However this is not just about me. My passion for cinematography is there, but also the passion for my country. I would say that you have to live here to understand what I am saying. The reason why I chose the red scarlet-w is future proof literally I want this camera to last at least 3-4 years. If I just thought about me, I personally would get a raven and buttload of lights as you suggest. But its not just about me you see and I also would like to rent out to others. They wont have the money to rent a lot of lights but a decent camera that does well in DR and pretty good in low light can help tremendously, plus the ability to upgrade to a better sensor in the future.........would give us good ground to work with......so I will just put this in stages so you can understand me better.

1. Get a good level camera to keep a good pace with the international community.
2. Get the basics in audio and light with the help of business partners
3. Rent them out at below market to help promising Bahamian filmmakers the chance to get to film festivals and such, of course I will work to be the DP on most of these.
4. Once the industry is to an acceptable level then I can go back to the normal and recoup my investment some way some how.
5. Continue to expand the rental business to better accomodate foreign productions so that there would be more incentives to film in this country.......we have a lot of natural light and beautiful scenery (so Ive been told, I'm used to it)
6. Then continue my own endeavors as a cinematographer.......since I would own the rental business per se...........I can literally eliminate that end of the production costs.

Hopefully that helps you to understand my position better. Like I said its not so easy to get lights with the amount of taxes and shipping costs. As a group effort its very much possible but not easy to do at all but it will be worth it.


*EDIT* Believe me I love lighting, I have a canon t3i with a 50mm lens. as a side project im investing in lighting because wellllllll...............you should know how it goes.

 

[Oron Cohen]

Hehehe believe me I understand exactly what you are saying and I fully agree. However this is not just about me. My passion for cinematography is there, but also the passion for my country. I would say that you have to live here to understand what I am saying. The reason why I chose the red scarlet-w is future proof literally I want this camera to last at least 3-4 years. If I just thought about me, I personally would get a raven and buttload of lights as you suggest. But its not just about me you see and I also would like to rent out to others. They wont have the money to rent a lot of lights but a decent camera that does well in DR and pretty good in low light can help tremendously, plus the ability to upgrade to a better sensor in the future.........would give us good ground to work with......so I will just put this in stages so you can understand me better.

1. Get a good level camera to keep a good pace with the international community.
2. Get the basics in audio and light with the help of business partners
3. Rent them out at below market to help promising Bahamian filmmakers the chance to get to film festivals and such, of course I will work to be the DP on most of these.
4. Once the industry is to an acceptable level then I can go back to the normal and recoup my investment some way some how.
5. Continue to expand the rental business to better accomodate foreign productions so that there would be more incentives to film in this country.......we have a lot of natural light and beautiful scenery (so Ive been told, I'm used to it)
6. Then continue my own endeavors as a cinematographer.......since I would own the rental business per se...........I can literally eliminate that end of the production costs.

Hopefully that helps you to understand my position better. Like I said its not so easy to get lights with the amount of taxes and shipping costs. As a group effort its very much possible but not easy to do at all but it will be worth it.


*EDIT* Believe me I love lighting, I have a canon t3i with a 50mm lens. as a side project im investing in lighting because wellllllll...............you should know how it goes.

Hi LaVaughn,

I do understand where you are coming from, but believe me that ANY Red DSMC1 or 2 camera would be plenty for your country, also the BM 4.6 and or even BM production camera. 4K is going to be the standard for the next 5-6 years, and I feel any camera that have 12 stops or more is absolutely fine. Invest the rest in glass and lights.

I just see the scarlet-w as a good camera for rental in a country that have no cameras, hardly any shoots or working professionals. Start modest and build yourself up, If people are say shooting amazing projects on Scarlet-X and a good set of lights and glass then you consider upgrading in two years to a used Scarlet-W which will cost 30% less.

Again, this is from my experience actually shooting and working with this equipment and for a few years also renting it out to people.

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

Hi LaVaughn,

I do understand where you are coming from, but believe me that ANY Red DSMC1 or 2 camera would be plenty for your country, also the BM 4.6 and or even BM production camera. 4K is going to be the standard for the next 5-6 years, and I feel any camera that have 12 stops or more is absolutely fine. Invest the rest in glass and lights.

I just see the scarlet-w as a good camera for rental in a country that have no cameras, hardly any shoots or working professionals. Start modest and build yourself up, If people are say shooting amazing projects on Scarlet-X and a good set of lights and glass then you consider upgrading in two years to a used Scarlet-W which will cost 30% less.

Again, this is from my experience actually shooting and working with this equipment and for a few years also renting it out to people.

So do you honestly think that this will be a better option in terms of me renting equipment as well?
If I am understanding you correctly, your advice is to start off with I guess, lets say a red raven, spend the savings on lights and grip equipment and build my brand by producing good quality work with said equipment?
I can probably fit in some good audio equipment with that as well.

Thinking about it now at least with the grip and lights foreign productions would have an easier time............because they normally bring their cameras anyway.

I like the idea. I really like it.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

If you can wait a little while I'm sure you will be able to get a great price on a used Raven. I suspect a lot of new red users will want to upgrade fast heh

 

[Oron Cohen]

So do you honestly think that this will be a better option in terms of me renting equipment as well?
If I am understanding you correctly, your advice is to start off with I guess, lets say a red raven, spend the savings on lights and grip equipment and build my brand by producing good quality work with said equipment?

Yes, this is what I'm saying. You will also get better looking images if you have say: Raven + good light kit (and you know what you're doing of course) vs having just a camera.

Also bare in mind 2 things:

1) camera packages that you rent out should have plenty of everything, not minimum of some. so 5-6 V-Lock batteries, 2 charges , decent quality dual sided FF (over 1000$ easy), swing away mattebox + ND set, clip on mattebox, good 100mm tripod head (again, over 1000$), backup 75mm tripod head, a set of primes (go Rokinon DS EF if you're on a budget they work well on rentals), a few zoom lenses (Tokina 11-16, Canon 24-105IS, Canon 17-55IS).

2) It's much harder to bring over lights from another country and lights modifiers like 4x4 floppy flag, silks, 6x6 frames and nets, 4x4 reflectors, combo stands, HMI's etc.

and for cameras: You could buy 2 Blackmagic ursa mini 4.6 or similar (sony FS7 etc) in the price of one Raven, and the power consumption is lower. why two? because in rentals you always need to have a backup camera, what happens if something breaks? you are in a remote location, no one will wait a month for you to fix the camera...

Just points to think about.

P.S pro crews usually roll with a set of PL lenses, so cameras that are not PL are usually not on top priority for them anyway. this is why I was thinking Scarlet-X in the first place.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

So do you honestly think that this will be a better option in terms of me renting equipment as well?
If I am understanding you correctly, your advice is to start off with I guess, lets say a red raven, spend the savings on lights and grip equipment and build my brand by producing good quality work with said equipment?
I can probably fit in some good audio equipment with that as well.

Thinking about it now at least with the grip and lights foreign productions would have an easier time............because they normally bring their cameras anyway.

I like the idea. I really like it.

If you are seriously thinking of going in this direction, I suggest looking for potential partners and investing in the equipment that accrues benefit to both you and your partner. A quick Google search finds this company: who has lots of lighting and grip, but only RED ONE accessories, not even a camera. Could be a perfect partner for you. Yes, you have to find a fair way to split rental income, but look hard at their equipment list and ask yourself: do you want to invest $200K in lighting and grip to justify your $20K camera? Think wisely about how you want to spend 80% of your time--building a complete rental house (with all the ancillary equipment and staff needed to a good job)--or building a creative enterprise while taking income from sub-rentals on the side.

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

Yes, this is what I'm saying. You will also get better looking images if you have say: Raven + good light kit (and you know what you're doing of course) vs having just a camera.

Also bare in mind 2 things:

1) camera packages that you rent out should have plenty of everything, not minimum of some. so 5-6 V-Lock batteries, 2 charges , decent quality dual sided FF (over 1000$ easy), swing away mattebox + ND set, clip on mattebox, good 100mm tripod head (again, over 1000$), backup 75mm tripod head, a set of primes (go Rokinon DS EF if you're on a budget they work well on rentals), a few zoom lenses (Tokina 11-16, Canon 24-105IS, Canon 17-55IS).

2) It's much harder to bring over lights from another country and lights modifiers like 4x4 floppy flag, silks, 6x6 frames and nets, 4x4 reflectors, combo stands, HMI's etc.

and for cameras: You could buy 2 Blackmagic ursa mini 4.6 or similar (sony FS7 etc) in the price of one Raven, and the power consumption is lower. why two? because in rentals you always need to have a backup camera, what happens if something breaks? you are in a remote location, no one will wait a month for you to fix the camera...

Just points to think about.

P.S pro crews usually roll with a set of PL lenses, so cameras that are not PL are usually not on top priority for them anyway. this is why I was thinking Scarlet-X in the first place.

Thanks again......I think I will roll with your recommendations if nothing changes in terms of increase in financial investment. I think I will stick with the red ecosystem, so the raven will do just fine I believe. Until I hear about BM improving on certain things I will stick with the red.

But yes I did talk with my business partner about packaging and so we are aware of the basics. So as year end approaches we will see how the cards line up. I am sure we will get off the ground one way or another. But your advice is sound and will be given in future meetings.

 

[Eric Estrada]

Where in the Bahamas are you?
I am shooting an episode of my web series in Grand Bahama next spring, should have our Red Raven by then.

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

If you are seriously thinking of going in this direction, I suggest looking for potential partners and investing in the equipment that accrues benefit to both you and your partner. A quick Google search finds this company: who has lots of lighting and grip, but only RED ONE accessories, not even a camera. Could be a perfect partner for you. Yes, you have to find a fair way to split rental income, but look hard at their equipment list and ask yourself: do you want to invest $200K in lighting and grip to justify your $20K camera? Think wisely about how you want to spend 80% of your time--building a complete rental house (with all the ancillary equipment and staff needed to a good job)--or building a creative enterprise while taking income from sub-rentals on the side.

I was not aware of this company!!!! Thank you for the heads up!

 

[LaVaughn Hamilton]

Where in the Bahamas are you?
I am shooting an episode of my web series in Grand Bahama next spring, should have our Red Raven by then.

I am in Grand Bahama. Can I come on set to see how it functions???

 

[RobMNeilson]

What's the Scarlet W queue looking like these days? If I ordered today I'd expect a camera in Dec/Jan?