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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NBC going to far?

We've already seen embedded advertising with Apprentice (almost exactly like this in fact), Idol and the like. It's just going to become more predominant.
 
"There is no Santa Claus!"

- Is that really news Eienstein?


DogDay
 
Funny, i just posted something in Scarlet under Technology and Storytelling about corporations and their crap. Thought I was being a little harsh until I read that wired article. Thanks for posting it.
This is a nightmare for real culture. REFUSE IT! USE REDRAY TO BROADCAST ON THE WALLS! ENOUGH WITH THE MINDLESS DUMBING DOWN OF OUR INTELLECT AND ARTISTIC INTEGRITY FOR CORPORATE PROFIT!
 
Personally I don't have a big problem with product placement if it is done well. (Person is drinking coke vs hollywood brand)

Even the article is stating they are just giving more of a voice to the people who are paying the bills. Artistic integrity is great and all but when it is someone else's money they have a right to expect to see that money back with higher returns.
 
aidenvfx said:
Personally I don't have a big problem with product placement if it is done well. (Person is drinking coke vs hollywood brand)

Even the article is stating they are just giving more of a voice to the people who are paying the bills. Artistic integrity is great and all but when it is someone else's money they have a right to expect to see that money back with higher returns.
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I agree. Network TV IS advertising, and the programming has always been up for the approval of and at the mercy of advertisers. They pay the bills. That's why most TV has always sucked. If one wants full control and artistic integrity, the only way is to make and independent feature with your own money.
 
networks and advertisers are really in a bind. like digitalfx pointed out, these days people just totally zip past commercials with DVRs. i haven't watched a commercial in like a year. :)

i'm kind of funny about it. if i see a show coming on i want to watch, i will dvr it, then start watching the show 15 minutes into it, so i know i will be able to zip through all the commercials.

i'm sure the networks have access to the tivo and dvr usage information, so they are fully aware what percentage of commercials are being FF'd through.
 
Call me anti-logical, or whatever, but I wish someone would start up a commercial channel. To me the commercial is the perfect artform for today. 30 to 60 seconds to tell a story. Come to think of it, I am going to start a thread "What are your favorite commercials"
 
Perhaps artform is the correct term re "To me the commercial is the perfect artform..." -- ie, displays that are all form and superficial content. And perhaps you speak much truth for there is much "artform" and not nearly enough art in the visual media spilled onto our minds/hearts these days. Art of the lasting elevating nurturing sort requires more than mere form, I would think.
 
number6 said:
Call me anti-logical, or whatever, but I wish someone would start up a commercial channel. To me the commercial is the perfect artform for today. 30 to 60 seconds to tell a story. Come to think of it, I am going to start a thread "What are your favorite commercials"
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You wouldn't happen to make commercials for a living? You know that you could just go to YouTube. I, and most of the people with whom I associate, hate almost all commercials with a passion.

The only "television" that I have seen for years besides occasional news is episodic series on DVD or iTunes. Buying on DVD is primarily motivated by the fact that I can watch anytime and without commercials. If there is something that I will spend the time to watch, then I will gladly pay to see it without commercials.

NBC's idea to make an entire program only to advertise will virtually certainly only bring about more of the kind of Kitsch that average Americans seem to enjoy or at least tolerate.
 
Evolve said:
REFUSE IT! USE REDRAY TO BROADCAST ON THE WALLS! ENOUGH WITH THE MINDLESS DUMBING DOWN OF OUR INTELLECT AND ARTISTIC INTEGRITY FOR CORPORATE PROFIT!
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Someone has to pay content producers somehow. Especially if we want to make the "intelligent and artistic" content. Who will that be? Will consumers really pay us? Or would we be better if we could get products into our shows and make our shows free for consumers to watch?

Broadcasting RedRay on the walls is possible. But how would you make enough money to pay the crew, actors, producer and the venue displaying the material? Will consumers really turn out and pay for that? How will they know about the show? Better add advertising costs for the movie. (oh wait, advertising is evil... now there's a dilemma)
 
antiquaeuropa said:
You wouldn't happen to make commercials for a living?
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:) No, just a short attention span.

You know that you could just go to YouTube. I, and most of the people with whom I associate, hate almost all commercials with a passion.
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I have dial up and dounloading takes forever. Besides, I like the spontaneity of experiencing a commercial rather than searching for one.

The only "television" that I have seen for years besides occasional news is episodic series on DVD or iTunes. Buying on DVD is primarily motivated by the fact that I can watch anytime and without commercials. If there is something that I will spend the time to watch, then I will gladly pay to see it without commercials.
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We have a different approach to time usage. There are a few tv programs I seek out and while I think commercials are necessary for sporting events, I don't like a break in a good story. But I tolerate those breaks because they are what makes the entertainment "free".

NBC's idea to make an entire program only to advertise will virtually certainly only bring about more of the kind of Kitsch that average Americans seem to enjoy or at least tolerate.
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But as long as what is being done is revealed and above board, then the market will decide if it is practical or not. I agree there is no accounting for taste, but then, who am I to judge. I even like broccoli.
 
The main difference being, a popular show attracts advertiseing and calls the shots.
Product placement has been in movies for quite awhile, but only in very minor roles, or playing as advertisements that are part of the environment (bladerunner and minority report and the Bond films come to mind).

NBC is talking about the product being the 'core' of the show. I hope it fails, and fails so poorly they will be to scared to try it again. I don't care if it's the best written, best acted show in the history of entertainment. And yeah, Rosario Dawson is hot, so what.

The current comprise I've been able to live with is hulu.com. Only four 30 second commercials during a normal 44 minute show. You can't fast forward, but it's over before I lose it. I've been actually watching some good shows that I normally would pass up. I only wish they would restrict the number of times the same damn commercial plays in a given time period, for any show.
Video quality is surprisingly good for flash.

Joost is another one with low key advertising, but playback quality isn't nearly as good as hulu.

I used to love downloading music videos from vuze. But after the 50th promo for Battle Star Galactica (same one btw), I stopped. Haven't downloaded for over a week.

btw, as far as a channel for commercials. Back in the late 70's when I lived in West Germany, the state controlled television channel had a 30 minute long commercials only break during the day. No commercials during programming. We would sit there and watch all of them. wierd. There may be something to what number6 said.
I wonder if todays Germans would ever want to go back to that model.
 
The BMW short films with Clive Owen a few years ago were along these lines and they worked pretty well. They didn't seem like 15 minute ads. If NBC can figure out how to do something similar, it might not be too bad.
 
It's sort of interesting... The BMW films were fantastic. You could probably build a show around it.

But there is the conflict of interest thing - but then again, there's always someone controlling the purse strings, and they will always have an agenda.

What I want to see, and it looks like CBC might start to lead the charge a little is free torrent-based TV. I'd happily watch a few commercials if I could get a DRM-free (to play on my modded-Xbox) episode of How I Met Your Mother, or something.

I think this model will have to have more impact because the dynamic of viewship is changing - 3 hours after an episode of Lost screens, there are 400,000 people downloading an episode with no ads, illegally. If networks were to release those files themselves, with a few ads (and well seeded), and get a little more creative with product placement and alternate advertising perhaps, then who'd be bothered to take them out? And if it was just one ad each break people probably wouldn't even skip them most of the time.

Biggest problem with that would be that it would piss off non-US broadcasters who are typically weeks, if not months behind the US on these shows.
 
I personally have not watched any network tv show (sitcom or drama), for years. I will suffer through commercials on Discovery, Science or History networks sometimes. But disrupting a narrative story with an advertisement is intolerable to me. Interrupting news or educational shows is not as bad but still bad. If I want to learn about a product- I will go and research it.

If they can use sponsors products in the story in an intelligent, creative and crafty way - then I think it's a major step forward in contrast to interrupting a story with some dumb lame bull.

Personally I think the only good episodic television is on subscription channels, especially HBO, Showtime etc. And I am more than happy to pay to watch them. Others I buy from iTunes. Anything to avoid commercials.
 
zeke said:
btw, as far as a channel for commercials. Back in the late 70's when I lived in West Germany, the state controlled television channel had a 30 minute long commercials only break during the day. No commercials during programming. We would sit there and watch all of them. wierd. There may be something to what number6 said.
I wonder if todays Germans would ever want to go back to that model.
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I`m born in 1978, so maybe that model disappeared before I existed, but me and my brother regale in the memories of the 80`s where we could watch star wars with just two five min. breaks - actually it was good having a little break.
the most successful tv-show on state controlled television ("wetten dass" - sorry, don`t know how to translate it...) right now here in germany has completely turned into a advertisement-farce. comedians, music and filmstars who attend as guests only come to promote their next movies, cds or shows. the show additionally is sponsored by dhl, audi and several other companies. it`s hilarious...
 
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