NATIONAL GREEK TV -ERT CLOSED DOWN BY GREEK GOVERMENT - 2600 UNEMPLOYED

[Ivan Kovax]

I just read that Greece has 27.4% unemployment. I find this situation unbelievable. I live in a country that may still technically be in a recession yet has only 4.6% unemployment.

Perhaps the worst possible thing that the govt could have done was to shut ERT down and further contribute to this poverty crisis. Especially if what Constantine says is true - that it was breaking even financially. There were so many other ways to contribute to the ongoing health of this company and its employees. And even if ERT was operating at a loss, the appropriate thing would have been to lay off SOME people (read: not all), to cut bloated exec pay by a little, or to cut overall pay in general by a little, or even cut work hours by a little such that most employees can keep working, earning and income and having a purpose to their lives.

If you are so intent on complaining about Greek money/economic management problems, then be true to your words and acknowledge that this is another terrible greek economic decision which needs to be rectified.

I am not sure of the legalities of this closure domestically, and to be honest with you, I don't care to know. However all I need to do is picture the same situation if Australia or Japan were to shut down the ABC/ SBS or NHK. And much like ERT, these institutions economies don't end at a sole TV station alone. To lose ABC/SBS or NHK would be to effect 10 times the amount of people that were fired who also depend on and provide services for these institutions as contractors and freelancers as well, and their extended families that rely on this source of income too. The effects of such an institution closing do not end directly with the people being fired, but ripple outward well beyond their immediate range. Which makes the case for continuing the health of these institutions all the stronger.

The economic nearsightedness in this issue is stunning. It is decisions like this, and a dogmatic adherence to extreme austerity measures that will ensure Greece takes another 30 years to actually recover from such an economic, social and cultural shock.

For what it is worth, I hope the laid off workers of ERT can regroup and find meaning to their lives and provide for their families soon, be it with ERT or elsewhere.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

fiat: money without intrinsic value

constantine, appreciate all your information and it really is a difficult and sad situation, one piece to the overarching political and economic puzzle - let's let this discussion play out in a dialectical approach, we'll all gain some perspective that way - no need to police the thread.

bjorn, i don't necessarily disagree, but i'm not sure that cycle is established or destined.

sergio, sounds like we're on the same page. i think some kind of global 'forgiveness' is in order. hopefully we're wrong to be completely cynical about its implications. perhaps we'll see a year of jubilee.

let's do try to be moderate and minimize bickering and ranting and shouting... decorum in the greek forum

Hey my friend Iam not sure I understand exactly your writing, lacking a little in English, but one thing I don't do is being a policeman and police any of the writings hahahaha.
Bjorn wrote that this was a far more political thread for a forum like this and that it will closed down.
I said that if it disturbs people or bring battles , then the moderator can feel free to shut it down, as I have no intention of creating political battles.
I hope you don't talk about the other things I write cause they are certainly not very police friendly lol.
Anyway, there are many economy analysts that so far failed to even come close to analyze and predict the Greek situation.
and that's why I asked to not get too political, cause it looks like it certainly doesn't fit in a forum like this.

thanks for you contribution.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

I just read that Greece has 27.4% unemployment. I find this situation unbelievable. I live in a country that may still technically be in a recession yet has only 4.6% unemployment.

Perhaps the worst possible thing that the govt could have done was to shut ERT down and further contribute to this poverty crisis. Especially if what Constantine says is true - that it was breaking even financially. There were so many other ways to contribute to the ongoing health of this company and its employees. And even if ERT was operating at a loss, the appropriate thing would have been to lay off SOME people (read: not all), to cut bloated exec pay by a little, or to cut overall pay in general by a little, or even cut work hours by a little such that most employees can keep working, earning and income and having a purpose to their lives.

If you are so intent on complaining about Greek money/economic management problems, then be true to your words and acknowledge that this is another terrible greek economic decision which needs to be rectified.

I am not sure of the legalities of this closure domestically, and to be honest with you, I don't care to know. However all I need to do is picture the same situation if Australia or Japan were to shut down the ABC/ SBS or NHK. And much like ERT, these institutions economies don't end at a sole TV station alone. To lose ABC/SBS or NHK would be to effect 10 times the amount of people that were fired who also depend on and provide services for these institutions as contractors and freelancers as well, and their extended families that rely on this source of income too. The effects of such an institution closing do not end directly with the people being fired, but ripple outward well beyond their immediate range. Which makes the case for continuing the health of these institutions all the stronger.

The economic nearsightedness in this issue is stunning. It is decisions like this, and a dogmatic adherence to extreme austerity measures that will ensure Greece takes another 30 years to actually recover from such an economic, social and cultural shock.

For what it is worth, I hope the laid off workers of ERT can regroup and find meaning to their lives and provide for their families soon, be it with ERT or elsewhere.

Hello Ivan, while I agree with most of your thoughts, I want to add that maybe officially is 27,4% of unemployment, but the reality is closer to 45% and its rising of course.

I will also add that its important if those actions were taken ILLEGALY and the reason is that its not the average crook that takes an illegal action its an OFFICIAl GOVERMENT taking actions against their own people,
In the first case you could take the crook in court and put him in jail. In the second case its almost impossible, and out of this political corruption, only a couple of past politicians are jailed for making millions taking advantage of their position, while the biggest percentage of those who do remain either untouched, or even their accusitions have been timed out as you know that the laws made by them, was made just to serve that situation too, so basically EVERYTHING wrong they do, will no longer will be a valid situation after 4 years.

Also its very important if its ILLEGAL because as I said every time that this is happening , ignoring the legislature and the parliament , means that they can simply close down anything they like, any time, next day,acting as dictators and not as a democratic party, abusing your right to live as a free citizen. Maybe that sounds very romantic in our days, but its us who accept it happening and repeated , at a stage that we getting used to it and think that this is normal in some cases. And that's how corruption works its way, with conspiracies and propaganda on every single one of us.

Thank you for your thoughts

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

In theoretical way may be, but in real world "government owned" read "national" is mostly used to further the agenda of those in power.

If we disregard a potentially very misleading generalization made in that post, and with mutually positive intent focus on the main point, related to the "real world", "ownership", "power" and "agenda"...

This thread is about shutting down a public media service of a whole nation by bypassing the parliament and the laws of that nation. The "real world" part.

Clarifying a few elements of the "agenda":

also do not forget that ERT wasn't just that, it was also 3 TV stations, 3 radios, magazine, and at least 3 orchestras , and a large historical team keeping all the history of Greek theater cinema and most important events in new Greek history. also a very large team of journalists.

Clarifying whose "power":

tHIS OF COURSE ISNT A COINCIDENCE since they TROIKA is now in Athens ASKING for 2000 people to be sacked from the public services to serve the general plan. So the government decided all of a sudden that they can close down the TOTAL ERT NATIONAL TV and RADIO broadcasting so they can get the new loan from TROIKA,and black out everything in one night .

Clarifying the identity of "governing" entities, covering the "ownership" part:

http://gogreece.about.com/od/Glossary-of-Greek-Terms/g/The-Troika.htm

 

[Liam Hall]

Yes, I just forgot to mention them. They are the top dog in this game they just do the trick a little bit better than the others. Feed the people with what the people want to see and then stick the hidden agenda into the mix. It's like Marry Poppins using sugar to fooling kids to swallow medicine... The better they make the rest of their content the more people see it as "what said on BBC is the truth"...

At least thats how I see it.

And if it was not to steer people, why on earth would a government need a TV station that mixed entertainment, science and news, As people would not get enough entertainment as it is today?

As someone who has made plenty of government propaganda and worked for the BBC I'm well placed to say you are talking total bollocks. The BBC may well be arrogant and more than a bit self-obsessed, but it is independent.

 

[Liam Hall]

Democracy is just a phase in the cycle of: Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship, Democracy, Corruption, Dictatorship and so on.. The rest of the western world is not far behind greece in this cycle, most is at the very end of their democracy phase... To me it's quite clear that the whole EU concept is going into the next stage at the moment...

Again, having spent time with politicians, they have far less power than most people think. Real power and influence is elusive and far harder to define than using simplistic terms like democracy, dictatorship etc.

 

[Mike Garrick]

From what the OP implied there was a whole lot of hangers on working within the network 10% - 20% who knows, receiving massive salaries for doing nothing?

So someone made a political decision. Instead of sacking just the privilege non achievers who happen to have big political clout ( because that's why they got the job in the 1st place) & risk alienating allies. Lets throw the baby out with the bathwater including the skilled & start again & only employ people who know what they're doing.

Sucks ......but if the network is rotten to the core (again doesn't mean everyone but just the top % ) then shutting down is a way forward. Is it the best way forward no ...but it is a way forward.

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Mike hello , how exactly did you make a conclusion that the ERT network at top % is rotten? Iam sorry to say its the other way around. I would appreciate if you don't make conclusions for a situation that you get to know thru controlled news.
You know how it works so making conclusions like this is like contributing to the general plan for the world of today. if you closing down entire businesses and organizations, and sucking thousands of people is a way to deal with a minority of corrupted employees ,even if you were the one that created that corruption, then there is nothing left for the people to look for. Not a step fwd at all. Quite the opposite Iam afraid. Or maybe I have misunderstood your thoughts, in that case I apologize . Please redefine what you mean with your last sentence /
Are you referring to this in general or think that its a fact in the ERT situation?
thanks

 

[Mike Garrick]

I base my comments on your own words...

"ERT NATIONAL TV was decided to be cleaned from corruption by finding all the corrupted employes, that were place in the past in places with huge salaries, serving political favors. But instead of that, they now DECIDED since last week to CLOSE DOWN the broadcasting WHILE IT WAS ON THE AIR, stating that they will reopen a new National TV named under a different name, and employing 800 people to replace the 2600 sucked employes."

If it is wrong change your words.........

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Yes what I wrote is correct, but I also wrote various times that this is a bunch of max 100 people and they are all known. So does that make them be the majority?
sorry for the misunderstanding, Iam writing in between work breaks ...thanks again

I must add that maybe I haven't cleared this out very well, so maybe its my fault. But in general, all technicians which is the majority of the stuff have nothing to do with this at all. They were low played and selected after public certificates of their profession and not by politicians.

sorry for the misunderstanding

thanks for your thoughts

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

The truth is that there has been many unnecessary emploees that not also were unnecessary , because their placement were just political favors of both last 2 goverments, but also they were taking very large salaries. In fact a bunch of them would make as much as 300 -400 camera operators a year.

There were also many others that were placed there from politicians and not only they didn't work, they would be the eye of those politicians. But you will have to know that most technicians, including camera, sound, lighting, broadcast tecnicians, editors, directors,electritians, woodworkers and craftmans, as well as just about everything is needed for inner productions.,and all production teams were the low payed average stuff.



also do not forget that ERT wasn't just that, it was also 3 TV stations, 3 radios, magazine, and at least 3 orchestras , and a large historical team keeping all the history of Greek theater cinema and most important events in new Greek history. also a very large team of journalists.

In any way, NOONE said that people shouldn't be evaluated, and who ever wasn't capable of doing the job or either be a part of corruption to NOT be fired , in fact the opposite. But sacking all of the stuff , with the most illegal possible practice and close down the entire organization, calling everyone corrupted and lazy and not capable ( that was the prime ministers words) is a non acceptable practice for even the worst dictator, and those people , not only lost their jobs, but they were also heart in their dignity being treated like they were all scam.

The other thing is that they now want to control 100% the new public TV, as this government said they could not be heard thru the old TV (what a lot of BS)

SO QUESS NOW WHAT and who they are going to employ and with what criteria as its the minister of economics him self that will do this job. In other words they just replace 5-10% corruption with a brand new 100% corruption, including the new Digital platform company DIGEA, that now has no competitor ( ERT WAS NO1 competitor for the digital platform) and its a lot of money involved on this deal as well. As you understand, its a very complex and even more corrupted system, using a direct method to give 2600 victims to TROIKA request, while there is another 8000 to follow, from
just about any public company or organization, to be privatized and of course that means more unemployment, and worst and more expensive services.

There is no privet company that can agree to buy a public organization or company just to serve the public, other than get as much profit as possible with out investing 1 euro if possible.
So if we let this happen as easy, then everything will collapse so fast, that it will be nothing here to look for.

Thanks Jeff

this is a better description of the situation of the past, and again sorry for the
misunderstanding.

 

[Mike Garrick]

No problems you have my sympathy. It is a bitch of a situation when the greedy few (or incompetent ) bring a nation to bankruptcy.

Unfortunately you are living the GFC mark 2...................( Greek Financial Crisis ). Stay healthy maybe you cant be wealthy but you certainly can be wise .

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

Thanks Mike much appreciated and all.

best regards

 

[constantine Tirintzis]

All I can say right now , after the latest news, is that what happens in Greece is the biggest political mess ever known in the Greek new history.

Comedian politicians, Congress with doubtful laws, political games, and a messed up and fed up society ,that can easily burst into a big explosion, or , being so unpredictable.

Not really know what to think anymore.

thank you all.