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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Dragon Sensor Upgrade Program begins

Peter Karlsson said:
Yes, also wondering about the HDRx.. Being able to have a track with shorter less motionblur has proven to be very helpful for me. And would be even more important with better light sensitivity...
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Anyone else want to chime in to save HDRx in the Dragon before we kill it?
 
Jarred Land said:
Anyone else want to chime in to save HDRx in the Dragon before we kill it?
Click to expand...


what??? Llol. By keeping it you just are keeping another bragging right over the competition that'll allow the camera to list another rare feature that the competitors don't have so unless keeping it is prohibitive in some way Ii'd say ofcoursekeep it!
 
no compromise.. its just kinda redundant with the Dragon if you used it for highlight protection. But if you guys want it for the sharp stills etc we can leave it in.
 
steve duncan said:
I think the 4K sales pitch was easy to effectively sell to clients two years ago, with some good response.. now, not so much. With companies like GoPro offering 4K cameras for $400-- the real question comes down to quality.
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Gopro 3 is 2.7K camera with a 4K sensor. 12 fps at 4K do not make it a 4K camera, as the naming convention is related to the resolution of moving imagery which is actually usable.
Enthusiast blogs and gadget sites tend to get ahead of themselves.
 
In Italy we say: Vangelo :-)

KETCH ROSSi said:
Some one here is confusing 4k cameras which CAN NOT output a TRUE 4k finish, with RED's 5k and now DRAGON 6k which output the absolute most pristine 4K Finish available today.


It's about image quality, if a production wants that they only have one camera to go to, and that as of today is ever more the RED Epic DRAGON!!

For all of those that are happy with just good enough and choose the 5D or anything else, Alexa included, and are happy with upscaling the crap out of footage, and also have NO look around form the 4k up to the 6k as Epic Dragon has for post processing and image stabilizing etc. then you can't fight that.


I also want to see Stills pooled form any other camera and printed in what will be the final quality and size output of the Epic Dragon and compare... ;)
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Keep HDRx! It has its problems, but its a creative tool in our disposal. Work like Time Scapes , some architecture shoots etc really do benefit from it. Sometimes, in a guerrilla location or situation, can really salvage a shoot!
 
Keep it; yea, more, expand it! I *still* want proper bracketing in stills mode. As in plus & minus several stops.

Get creative! You saw that welding helmet with the crazy real time HDR? Play with that a bit... when you're not wedded to traditional cinema 24fps / 180 shutter, you can use the speed of Dragon to have all kinds of fun... HDRx is two track... why not allow FOUR tracks, for permissible shutter / frame rate / data rate combos? Why not have base exposure, HDR +4 stops, +8stops, -4 stops - all running at once, for special effects and scientific jobs?

Don't kill it. Why would you ever throw away a tool out of the box?

Mike
 
steve duncan said:
problem is that production budgets have gone way down. and with the lower budgets, nobody is willing to pay high day rates for the REDs. Adorama in NYC is offering the 5DM3 for $65 a day. The only camera consistently getting the $500 plus day rates is the Alexa. And a new 10K sensor isn't going to change that... the only way to afford to stay with RED, with heavy 4K competition looming everywhere, is if RED makes it affordable for us to stay. If not, we're going to get chewed up by all these lower costs 4k cameras. And when clients ask what's the difference between a Black magic 4k camera at 1k a wk, as opposed to 3k a wk for a dragon Epic-- good luck explaining what stops are, and how 4K isn't really the same with all cameras.
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I feel it might be easier to sell Epic on a job over Blackmagic 4K than to sell Epic against Sony / Canon / Arri for HD.

My sell for Red Epic against Blackmagic 4K would ironically be "if you're going to the trouble and expense to do a 4K post process... might as well shoot it right. Instead of shooting cheap 4K and having a headache editing it... You'd get better quality and an easier and cheaper edit with Epic footage scaled down to HD - and you'll always have the Epic footage at 4K if you ever need it." I know this isn't exactly the "4K is easy" party line but I think it's a good reason not to cheap out on 4K acquisition.

Blackmagic 4K camera:
1. Is likely really not good in low light. Grainy.
2. Has a cumbersome form factor.
3. Can't do high frame rates.
4. Doesn't have timecode input or genlock. Potential multicam and audio hassles costing edit time later.

Dragon Epic produces a super-clean IMAX-grade beautiful 4K and has been fully battle-tested.

For sure the rental market is difficult for a lot of RED owners - but that's more due to the fact that a lot of jobs don't need 4K - and there are a lot of competing large-sensor cameras out there with very good image quality and shallow DOF, quick and easy HD workflow, XLR audio, etc. My 2c is that the Blackmagic 4K camera will cut into some rental opportunities - but those folks were mostly cheapskates or indies who never had much money anyway :)

BTW... I'm not saying I don't like the Blackmagic 4K camera. I have two on pre-order actually. Unless I can find a Scarlet Dragon for cheap of course!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Jarred Land said:
no compromise.. its just kinda redundant with the Dragon if you used it for highlight protection. But if you guys want it for the sharp stills etc we can leave it in.
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Well let's say Dragon is 16 stops DR, doesn't that mean with Hdrx one would get 19 and up? I'm sure some people would love that much range for something (like shooting directly into the sun lol)
 
Please leave the HDRX in. Apart from sharp stills, it gives a great "effect" in some required situations albeit
for aesthetic interpretations.
Jehangir C.
 
I don't use HDRx. My feeling is that:

More DR > HDRx. I'm glad to step away from it. It was an intermediate step.

If others use it still, I'd just leave it in for those guys.

Jarred Land said:
Anyone else want to chime in to save HDRx in the Dragon before we kill it?
Click to expand...
 
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HDRx is absolutely essential for so many uses besides HDR! The extra sensitivity of Dragon means we can use a much higher shutter on the X track without getting noise. It is also a HUGE safety net with octocopter footage as motion blur can cause Warped footage to be unusable. Setting the X track to a higher shutter saves soooo many shots.
 
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