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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB Surprises

Alexander Nikishin said:
You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.
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We'll make it work: good lenses, a bit of math, I think it will be beautiful. I put that one in to show that I'm a realist that truely appreciates what we're getting. Some hinting but no real confirmation on the other two--and those would go a long way to making a super streamlined workflow.

I really don't want to continously connect and disconnect a ram drive to dump it (like a digital colostomy bag) I'd rather have the ram working all day keeping the camera silent and secure but dumping to disk whenever it has a bit of time and doesn't worry about a bit of noise.

My fear is the drive will be relatively quiet but as good as an air conditioner to a sound guy when you get onto a sound stage. I really think Ram is the way to go--I just don't want to be changing it all day and wearing out the connectors!
 
Alexander Nikishin said:
You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.
Click to expand...
EDIT -- So, 1080p RGB is a better way and the difference (for a 5% as average use) is slightly noticeable or not even so much.
 
Emanuel said:
So, 1080p RGB is a better way and the difference (for a 5% as average use) is slightly noticeable or not even so much.
Click to expand...

You loose the Raw control and not much has been said about the quality of 1080p RGB as far as compression and what level of quality you can get recording to Red Ram or Red Drive.

It seems a little less magical than Red Code to me and as the current high end crop is recording 1080p to massive Raid arrays to regain the quality-- how will it hold up against 1080p compressed enough for an on camera solution?

Most of the tricks Graeme has been talking about and demonstrating have been in the Redcode Raw arena so I'm not sure what's in store for us with true RGB--but we'll just have to wait and see.

I assumed that the best quality 1080 RGB would be coming out of one of the digital ports and therefore require a deck or external raid array rather than spooled to red disk/red ram--but I could be wrong.

I'm sure that anything that gets approved by Jim and Graeme will be great--It just remains to be seen.
 
OK, I'll go again here:

So, 1080p RGB is a better way 'cause the difference 2K -> 1080p here is slightly noticeable. Not the same for 35mm vs. the S16mm sensor frame size. And I'd guess the same on the RAW control vs. RGB.

EDIT -- But I agreed, given the fact this just remains to be seen.
 
I'd imagine that the best way to shoot 1080p would be to shoot in 4k redcode then use redcine to downconvert to 1080p. The Red team has faith in the "4k to any flavor" method so I trust them of all people in knowing what's the best route.
 
Yes, of course. But we were talking about 60 fps on camera, following your own quote. ;-)
 
Alexander Nikishin said:
I'd imagine that the best way to shoot 1080p would be to shoot in 4k redcode then use redcine to downconvert to 1080p. The Red team has faith in the "4k to any flavor" method so I trust them of all people in knowing what's the best route.
Click to expand...

I definately agree. The context, however, was about the best way to achieve 60fps in camera: 2K from a cropped sensor or 1080p RGB from the full sensor. The quality of 1080p RBG to on camera drives remains to be seen, so I am thinking living with the crop to get Redcode would be better as I'm not sure if 1080p is going to be as good on camera as it could be pumped out a high speed port--but the solution remains to be seen.
 
Ah my bad, I'm starting to tire out after reading random tech articles and such all day....

Hmmmm that is a tough one.....2k is higher resolution ofcourse, but 1080p will use the full 35mm frame size. I'll leave it to the Red team to give us guidance. And I'll also be waiting for that magical 2k 35mm frame size onboard trick Graeme forget to mention. :alien:
 
laboprod said:
Again, I have the feeling that I have heard that the RGB recording will be sort of unprocessed RGB, therefore giving a lot of control for post production (but sure not as much as the RAW path).

antoine.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, I would think it would only go out the digital ports to a monster deck or Raid array but all will be known at NAB!
 
Details of dreams for NAB as follows....

1. REDCODE API in at least one of the big NLE’s to be able to edit native REDCODE…..wow ho!!

Hopefully all your offline low-rez edits/effects can get conformed to your online output within that NLE.


2. Good RPL tool that supports most of the EDL/XML/AAF

This means more NLE’s export standards and more offline NLE edit functions (hopefully) get conformed to the REDCODE online output.


3. Onboard REDCODED 2K@120fps

Hoping to get windowed REDRAW 2K@120 fps (RedCode in camera) via REDRAM for slo-mo, etc…..this would be fantastic.

Presently the confirmed 2K/1080p choices out of the camera are:

1. Scaled RAW 2K@120fps via 10gig fibre port…Note: it’s only 380MB/sec! No huge RAID needed here!

2. Windowed REDRAW 2K/1080p @ 60fps (RedCode in camera) via RED Storage devices.

3. Scaled RGB 1080p @ 60fps (RedCode in camera) via RED Storage devices.

4. Scaled RGB 1080p @ 30fps (Compressed? in camera) via dual HD-SDI.



4. Ability to backup REDRAM/FLASH to REDDRIVE.

Stuart mentioned that REDDRIVE could be configured to RAID 1.
Which means it's a more secure form of backup only device!

Say you record to REDRAM or REDFLASH.

You may (or may not) want to keep the REDDRIVE on the camera continuously, only when you’re backing up the RED RAM/FLASH, doesn’t matter, but you’d like to backup to the REDDRIVE for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, if the RED camera can act as host to all drives when backing up, it means I don't need to purchase any 3rd party hardware to have a reasonably secure backup system.

This is good for us and RED, as it means I don't purchase additional 3rd party kit for backup, only additional REDDRIVES.

Regarding the next reason is I’m assuming I can playback through the camera, any footage from any RED storage module.
If my footage has been backed up to the laptop, then playback becomes a problem.
If I can backup to the REDDRIVE, I can then play of all my saved footage back out through the camera.

The fallback option here would be to record to REDFLASH/RAM, copy to laptop, and then copy up to REDDRIVE and playback on camera.
This is if the RED camera can’t act as host to source and destination drives when backing up.
Another nice to have, is to hook up 3rd party external raids directly to RED camera (host).


Cheers,
Dave
 
I was told by graeme, that the bottleneck for FPS was the processor, not the drive.

so I dont think REDRAM is going to help get better frame rates. In theory Redraid could handle 2K @120fps, its the cpu that cant AFAIK.
 
Alexander Nikishin said:
You can shoot onboard 2k at 60fps, only sad thing is it will be in the S16mm "windowed" frame size.
Click to expand...

I think the jury is still out on that one... You can shoot 1920x1080 sampled from the entire 4K window area and encode to RGB on camera. To stretch that a bit more and encode at 2K doesn't seem like that big of a reach. Although, if it's just outside of the camera's processing capabilities, then so be it.
 
AppliedVisual said:
I think the jury is still out on that one... You can shoot 1920x1080 sampled from the entire 4K window area and encode to 2K RGB on camera. To stretch that a bit more and encode at 2K doesn't seem like that big of a reach. Although, if it's just outside of the camera's processing capabilities, then so be it.
Click to expand...

All I can do is hope. :biggrin:
 
Thom - my understanding is that the 1080pRGB is unprocessed - all that has happened is a demosaic and downsample - so that should give you plenty of room to color manipulate in post. While RGB is three channels of data to record not just RAW's one, it is about 1/4 the pixels, so the math works out that you should be able to have lots of datarate available to create a high quality image. In my mind, I'm confident that for speeds over 30p, 1080pRGB will be the way to go to maintain your depth of field and get a high quality image. That said, this might be a problem for early adopters (1-100 serial #s) until RGB gets all worked out.

-mike
 
NAB Red footage

NAB Red footage

I'm sure the Red team wants the new footage to be shown at NAB to be a suprise, but is it possible to get a general sort of hint as to what kind of lighting / no lighting situations the footage has been shot in? my big hope for NAB is to see some footage like: wide open, low (natural) light.
 
zak forrest said:
I'm sure the Red team wants the new footage to be shown at NAB to be a suprise, but is it possible to get a general sort of hint as to what kind of lighting / no lighting situations the footage has been shot in? my big hope for NAB is to see some footage like: wide open, low (natural) light.
Click to expand...

Remember the funny car footage they hinted at with frankie? That was natural light...:devil:
 
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