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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB Show Rumors

Bob Gundu said:
As a Scarlet owner itching to upgrade to Epic, the biggest excitement for me will be awaiting the upgrade cost. I'm hopeful RED will offer something reasonable.
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For me, Im itching to know if the Winnipeg Jets will ever win again :P

All kidding aside, I cant wait to meet you all at NAB this year.

As an actual new RED Scarlet owner, I feel more at ease this time around ;)
 
"and online editor" is that an after thought.............or is that a soft launch : o !

So BM are shaking NLE tree.......& I'm hoping for a significant change ...no more round tripping.
 
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Interesting. Word is that the introductory model will be around 15K. Supposedly they are planning another version around 7.5K. You will note that Vincent's short was shot with a Canon DSLR and a still lens. Hopefully their rig will work equally well with a heavier EPIC or Scarlet and a heavier lens.

__________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8
 
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-,j

-,j

Kemalettin Sert said:
wow BMC had super big booth in IBC.now in NAB they have twice size of Red booth again.these guys really love show off
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They have a lot of products to show off. To sit next to Red's booth, they need a new camera. I suspect Scarlet Dragon will look awesome.
 
Ryan Sauve said:
Hey Wayne, got a link to it so I can check it out?
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This was the Stanford one, 2005, sorry got it confused.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/alterna...us-tech-shoot-first-ask-what-focus-later.html

Just an easy way to do it. Was not such a snob to expect cinema quality, but pro quality that could still be used for cinema.

Genius is a relative term, was figuring out how to record HD-fullhd on VHS tape uncompressed the decade before hand. The industry has been kept back a decade by listening to the wrong people. Seen a lot of wannabes with half baked designs over the years. We should have had $2k $4k cameras years ago, and 8k by now. We could have outdone BMD by miles in 2007, for $1-2k, the parts were there. So don't be impressed with anything in the last ten yeas, except maybe redray compression, but nobody has ever admitted how it works, or supplied objective figures that I have seen. Will be happy if they are out there already and anybody can point me too it. Red is the only company that has delivered reasonable so far, except BMD, who are trying.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
wow BMC had super big booth in IBC.now in NAB they have twice size of Red booth again.these guys really love show off
Click to expand...

Well to be fare BMC is 120'X120' and Red is 80'X120' So about 1.4ish the size :) But who is counting... NAB is 3 days away!
 
Bob Gundu said:
BM should license REDCODE on their next camera.
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Ha! Personally I hope they don't license REDCODE and instead develop their own better codec.

Some suggestions to get you started:
- is designed to be easily decompressed via GPUs (a big limitation of REDCODE)
- is an open standard and doesn't rely on a proprietary SDK
- has a documented, clear color space embedded in each file
- has better embedded metadata
- option to not waste processing power doing lossless compression that the SSDs will do onboard anyway
- has variable bitrate
- has intelligent inter-frame compression (eg for HDR)
- supports lightfield and computational photography applications better (this deserves a whole set of bullet points for itself)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I was thinking RED have developed something amazing but are willing to let others license the existing Redcode. It may explain RED suing Sony for not playing fair. I may be just blowing smoke up my own but here.


Bruce Allen said:
Ha! Personally I hope they don't license REDCODE and instead develop their own better codec.

Some suggestions to get you started:
- is designed to be easily decompressed via GPUs (a big limitation of REDCODE)
- is an open standard and doesn't rely on a proprietary SDK
- has a documented, clear color space embedded in each file
- has better embedded metadata
- option to not waste processing power doing lossless compression that the SSDs will do onboard anyway
- has variable bitrate
- has intelligent inter-frame compression (eg for HDR)
- supports lightfield and computational photography applications better (this deserves a whole set of bullet points for itself)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...
 
Bob Gundu said:
I was thinking RED have developed something amazing but are willing to let others license the existing Redcode. It may explain RED suing Sony for not playing fair. I may be just blowing smoke up my own but here.
Click to expand...

It's basically just a couple of algorithms looking for redundancy across the Bayer sensor, plus JPEG2000 compression. Not particularly sophisticated and very similar to what Cineform was doing earlier anyway.

The real magic was all of the folks who developed wavelets and JPEG2000. Which is not RED. Graeme is a genius but he is spread thin. RED simply doesn't have enough dedicated R&D resources to actually develop new compression algorithms from scratch.

In the beginning you could actually see the JPEG2000 info in the R3D. Later on, RED decided to encrypt it, making it harder to decode without using their proprietary tools.

Unfortunately, JPEG2000 compression was not designed around GPUs... which is why you can't use CUDA to decode a R3D. And I'm sure that RED's additional encryption didn't help.

With some changes to the initial JPEG2000 algorithm and the way the data is stored, you could make it far easier for GPUs to decompress, of course. I have tried multiple times to put RED in touch with my coder friends at nVidia but they really just didn't seem interested. Guess REDROCKETS sell well. Also, I'm guessing, again, that RED just doesn't have a large enough R&D team. Which is silly.

Anyway, yeah... time for something more GPU friendly, more open... and better!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Hmmm... At that price point and weight capacity, I guess I'll have to try it out to see if it's going to handle better than stabilizers and steadicam systems we already have. The upcoming small capacity one for under $7500 also sounds somewhat intriguing, I guess the remote joystick control is one aspect that sounds interesting to all of this. But a gyroscopically stabilized gimbal system for handheld devices? As I pointed out earlier, these sorts of things already exist. There are tactical applications for this tech and products available that I can adapt at much lower cost.

Anyway, I'm going to fully investigate this at NAB! I'm not so sure it's a "game changer" <choke>, but if it has the right balance of abilities for the price, this could be a very attractive piece of kit and could change how a lot of people work, who don't already have stabilizer systems or have put in the hours to learn to operate them. Could be quite a tool for small crews and one man operations. Oh, crap, that's me... So yes, will be taking a look.
 
"oh, crap, that's me..." Classic Jeff! All this stuff aside, I can't wait to visit RED this year!
 
Bruce Allen said:
Ha! Personally I hope they don't license REDCODE and instead develop their own better codec.

Some suggestions to get you started:
- is designed to be easily decompressed via GPUs (a big limitation of REDCODE)
- is an open standard and doesn't rely on a proprietary SDK
- has a documented, clear color space embedded in each file
- has better embedded metadata
- option to not waste processing power doing lossless compression that the SSDs will do onboard anyway
- has variable bitrate
- has intelligent inter-frame compression (eg for HDR)
- supports lightfield and computational photography applications better (this deserves a whole set of bullet points for itself)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

Cineform meets some of that criteria, they are moving to a standard and was always cpu performance friendly before recode was. They were seasoned professionals before Red, got a lot of respect for Dave.

Don't a few editors use gpu processing on redcode?

I have done a bit of figuring out ultra efficient wave forming mechanisms for other applications. Processing power is not such an issue, but how you do it, the same in virtually all fields of study, that people blindly bash the wall instead of find the route.
 
Reading what you said latter on Bruce. What is wrong with using recent versions of opencl instead of cuda? Is there any deficiencies on the latest (amd) gpu's.

I first suggested the processing solution used in the red rocket to Jim, as a temporary solution until gpu architecture caught up in flexibility. I have wondered if they have shares, or purchased a full run. I was shocked years ago to realise the red rocket was still actually on this old tech. I simply had not paid attention to it and thought they had implemented a nvidia professional gpu solution.
 
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