NAB new announcements...

[Carter Cammack]

What I think she misses here is the natural progression of skills. We all shot bad home videos of our kids and pets, not to have videos of kids and pets, but to learn our cameras and get some basic skills. We went to class. We shot the work she calls "crap", commercials and music videos to gain the talent and therefore earn the privilege to produce the art. It takes a decade or more of dedication and a lot of personal investment to get there, and most never will.

Personally, I don't take commercials or music videos because they require skills I know I don't have. Some of the most amazing cinematography is found in videos and commercials.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Kristin,

I'm not sure what you want but 4K at $300 is just not possible. If you feel betrayed... your expectations were not realistic.

This is hard stuff as evidenced by the others inability to do it either. 5 years ago you could buy a Sony F35 with recorder for $350K. It is a 1080P camera.

You aren't going to get much support for crying about price/performance of RED from me. We have busted our asses to get where we are and we think the industry is better off for our efforts.

This is also a Recon post... so please take your disappointment to another area of the forum.

Jim

Jim, I hate to call it what it is because it sounds like I'm being an old dog here, but there is certainly a sense of entitlement happening amongst certain segments of the filmmaking population. If I had to guess where it's stemming from is that they are hearing people say that 1080, compressed video is no good, and they are getting defensive and want to have access to the better tools to legitimize their work. Perhaps it's a natural reaction, however, reality is that filmmaking tools are expensive to make, especially the R&D, so just because a filmmakers wants the best tool, doesn't mean they can afford it. That's the divide, and it's how life works.

I grew up with some of the most amazing artists I've ever been around. I very rarely hear them refer to themselves as artists. They just make art, using whatever tools they have available to them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for filmmakers. Too easy to get a hold of technology, even if you're broke. I gave my nephew (who was 14 at the time) a MiniDV camera, nice 3-cip Sony. He didn't complain that it wasn't HD. He went home, learned the camera and made a movie that night. Took the Sony Vegas editing software I bought for him, learned it in 2 hours and started editing his movie that night. To me, that's the approach filmmakers need to have. Make the best with what you've got, and when you have the opportunity to expand out to other tools, then that's great. But no one can accuse RED of ignoring indie filmmakers. It's the exact opposite.

Nonetheless, the thing that got under my skin the most about Kristin's posts was the stereotyping. Not good.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Good point on the JVC Andre, but RED and Redusers like you and me have touted the RED cameras so highly that it has become the aspirational standard. I for one could not contemplate shooting on anything less. And from my observations, true artists do not create for the purpose of making money, but for the making of the art. Artists are not generally good business people.

In my own humble undertakings, I did not buy Epics to make money... I bought them to make movies (which in turn I hope will make money) '-)

So we give "true artists" free RED cameras? Perhaps we can have a communist revolution and the government can take over RED and then put the people on a long waiting list for free RED cameras. How would the government know if someone is a true artist though? Would they have a waiting list and the state decides?

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

..And to think I had almost all of the last 20-something posts flagged for deletion until I saw Jim's reply.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Ahh Jeff.. I'd actually be happy if all posts everywhere on the internet first had to be vetted by you

 

[Elsie N]

So we give "true artists" free RED cameras? Perhaps we can have a communist revolution and the government can take over RED and then put the people on a long waiting list for free RED cameras. How would the government know if someone is a true artist though? Would they have a waiting list and the state decides?

Maybe that's how you would do it Andrae, but my suggestion was that Kristin should timeshare. That is, like-minded people who think like her or him... can't tell the gender by the name, should pool their resources and buy the camera they need to make their art.

 

[Elsie N]

Ahh Jeff.. I'd actually be happy if all posts everywhere on the internet first had to be vetted by you

You'd probably be happy with that up until he disallowed one of yours. ;-

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

You'd probably be happy with that up until he disallowed one of yours. ;-

So my posts about people being able to win free iPads...?

 

[Elsie N]

So my posts about people being able to win free iPads...?

You shouldn't be asking me... ask your newly appointed supernumerary.:biggrinjester:

 

[Frank Weeks]

Kristin,

I'm not sure what you want but 4K at $300 is just not possible. If you feel betrayed... your expectations were not realistic.

This is hard stuff as evidenced by the others inability to do it either. 5 years ago you could buy a Sony F35 with recorder for $350K. It is a 1080P camera.

You aren't going to get much support for crying about price/performance of RED from me. We have busted our asses to get where we are and we think the industry is better off for our efforts.

This is also a Recon post... so please take your disappointment to another area of the forum.

Jim

Perfectly put Jim. When I started shooting in the late 70s the two best non film cameras were the RCA TK-76 and the Ikagami 79a. I was fortunate enough to use both. Both of them with decent glass cost over 60K. For that you got 620x480 SD video. My dream at the time was to have a camera that shot like video but was capable of looking like film and didn't cost more than a house. BTW, 60K in 1980 would buy you a decent home.

Red made that possible. The others did join in but it wasn't until Red came along and shook the apple cart so hard the vender was dispensing apple sauce. Complaints about the cost of cameras now seem almost humorous. What Red has done in the last five years has brought economical motion picture quality to everyone. It may seem high to some but it's a bargain.

I only wish I were able to attend NAB again this year and shake the hands of the people who made it possible.

Thanks Jim. Thanks team. See you next year.

 

[Carter Cammack]

A quarterback doesn't throw where the receiver is... he throws where the receiver will be.

Jim

What I want from NAB is a pro model Ipad or tablet PC as sensitive as my Cintiq, with some serious GPU stuff like FirePro or Quadro 5k, with I7 horsepower and serious I/O capacity. I could take my animation work anywhere.

Of course, more stuff from RED is always good.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

...of all the people that feel they cannot create because the tools that will do their art justice are out of their reach, how many of them have a script ready to shoot, or even an idea they have developed, or how many have spent time shooting on those "lesser" tools so that they could polish their craft to the point they realized they needed something better? 11 out of 10 newcomers that come my way asking for a donation, free rentals or what have you, have never done anything other than fantasize, dream and feel entitled, but the ones I've met that had a pressing need to get their vision out there, never once asked for a freebie and always took the shity 1/3" cameras I offered them and came back with beautiful stuff. Consequently, most of those guys today have established a reputation where they can afford to use whatever they want, but all of them are still happy to shoot with whatever they have. This is a generation of entitled people, not only in the arts but all around, those who feel something is owed to them without having done a single thing to earn that right...

Again, that maybe does not apply to anybody in this thread, I hope so, then maybe it does.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

In 2 years everyone's iphone will be able to shoot 4k (Nokia already has an 8k camera phone). But people will complain that 16k isn't affordable.

If people without means want to shoot a film they can buy a free cell phone on contract and shoot 1080p video that I would have killed for a decade ago in a pro-camera. I would rather have a Nokia phone that could shoot 24p than a DV Cam.

RED will come down in price. As their volume increases prices will drop. Look at how RED is already able to undercut without mass market volumes to fall back on.

 

[Will Keir]

Jim shouldn't be wasting his time and energy on complaints in recon.

When I post I try to be positive or reconstructive, negative posts do us all little service and why am I wasting time reading through this little negative uprising / putting someone in their place?

Have the MODs move the post to the complain department, she is welcome to complain in the appropriate place. That she is entitled to.

Ahh Jeff.. I'd actually be happy if all posts everywhere on the internet first had to be vetted by you

 

[Will Keir]

Have you ever seen a RED commercial on TV? I found out about RED in 2005 through word of mouth, IMO the best source of advertizing.

In 2 years everyone's iphone will be able to shoot 4k (Nokia already has an 8k camera phone). But people will complain that 16k isn't affordable.

If people without means want to shoot a film they can buy a free cell phone on contract and shoot 1080p video that I would have killed for a decade ago in a pro-camera. I would rather have a Nokia phone that could shoot 24p than a DV Cam.

RED will come down in price. As their volume increases prices will drop. Look at how RED is already able to undercut without mass market volumes to fall back on.

 

[Jaakko Rinne]

You aren't going to get much support for crying about price/performance of RED from me. We have busted our asses to get where we are and we think the industry is better off for our efforts.

Even having owned my Scarlet-X for a few months now, it doesn't cease to amaze me that I've got right there on my shelf a 4K RAW Digital Cinema camera that I personally own and it cost way less than my car. And I drive a cheap car.

I look at it and think "that thing right there was just used on a feature, it's off to a commercial shoot a few days from now and it completely kicks the asses of all the hundred thousand euro cameras that would've been used in its place just a few years back. And it's mine. Awesome."

So yeah, the price/performance rocks. As does everything else. Thanks, Jim & co.

 

[Maik Müller]

Even having owned my Scarlet-X for a few months now, it doesn't cease to amaze me that I've got right there on my shelf a 4K RAW Digital Cinema camera that I personally own and it cost way less than my car. And I drive a cheap car.

I look at it and think "that thing right there was just used on a feature, it's off to a commercial shoot a few days from now and it completely kicks the asses of all the hundred thousand euro cameras that would've been used in its place just a few years back. And it's mine. Awesome."

So yeah, the price/performance rocks. As does everything else. Thanks, Jim & co.

+1
Period!
Feeling the same, for me its still a miracle that RED made it possible for me to own not just a real professional digital cinema camera. And i got one that is the 2nd best on this planet (and very close to its big brother), it simly kills everything that has been on the market before (for a lot more money). I also know that i've not just bought a camera that will be outdated in a few months (see the timeframe between c300 and c500) because RED will update the software (for free), they'll probably offer upgrades for the sensor, if possible... RED cares about their customers, not just the money.

RED clearly opened a new chapter when its coming to price/performance/customer-care in this market. Seeing what Canon announced (and what they did to all c300-customers) i know that i did everything right by trusting RED!

Thanks for my Scarlet, i love it. Can't wait to sse RED's NAB-announcements.

 

[Carlos Reyes]

I think it's simple, if you can't afford a RED yet it's for a reason. I've encountered way too many people who use the fact that they can't afford a certain camera system as an excuse not to make work. Use what is available to you.

 

[Denizhan Nacar]

Jim, I hate to call it what it is because it sounds like I'm being an old dog here, but there is certainly a sense of entitlement happening amongst certain segments of the filmmaking population. If I had to guess where it's stemming from is that they are hearing people say that 1080, compressed video is no good, and they are getting defensive and want to have access to the better tools to legitimize their work. Perhaps it's a natural reaction, however, reality is that filmmaking tools are expensive to make, especially the R&D, so just because a filmmakers wants the best tool, doesn't mean they can afford it. That's the divide, and it's how life works.

I grew up with some of the most amazing artists I've ever been around. I very rarely hear them refer to themselves as artists. They just make art, using whatever tools they have available to them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for filmmakers. Too easy to get a hold of technology, even if you're broke. I gave my nephew (who was 14 at the time) a MiniDV camera, nice 3-cip Sony. He didn't complain that it wasn't HD. He went home, learned the camera and made a movie that night. Took the Sony Vegas editing software I bought for him, learned it in 2 hours and started editing his movie that night. To me, that's the approach filmmakers need to have. Make the best with what you've got, and when you have the opportunity to expand out to other tools, then that's great. But no one can accuse RED of ignoring indie filmmakers. It's the exact opposite.

Nonetheless, the thing that got under my skin the most about Kristin's posts was the stereotyping. Not good.

Couldn't agree more steve...well said...

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Now, back to the topic at hand....

I will now take on the roll of a reporter at a press conference (has Jim ever done a press conference?). Let's see where this goes.

Steve: Jim, can you tell us what you will be revealing at NAB this year?
Jim:

Steve: Okay, can you give us a hint?
Jim:

Steve: What do you think will be the most important factor that will put 4K in the mainstream marketplace?
Jim:

Steve: If you release a new sensor, presumably Dragon, which cameras do you anticipate will get this upgrade and when do you anticipate that any cameras purchased new from RED will have this sensor built in?
Jim:

Steve: What makes RED different and positions you ahead of all other companies in this race for higher resolution, higher dynamic range, etc?
Jim:

Steve: What is your ideal vision for RED over the next few years?
Jim:

Steve: Can you tell us about the RED Laser projector?
Jim:

Steve: Have you and Jarred ever had a fight?​ (sorry couldn't resist)
Jim:

 

[Jon Carr]

If you can't afford a RED, just rent the damn thing... Sometimes it's better to rent then own. I shoot the hell out of my Scarlet, but half the time I rent out other camera based on the production's needs. Even though I do promote my RED as much as possible. :biggrin: