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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB 2014 rumors and whispers

Terry VerHaar said:
Doesn't it depend on the type of compression and the type of raw? Hard to imagine they "own" the whole gamut of "compressed raw." But stranger things have happened, I guess. :huh:
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I'm not a patent attorney. May be someone, who had read the actual patent can enlighten us. All I know, that Red vs Sony lawsuit is coming up. Actually, I don't even know that. All I know, that it had been filed.
 
Sulekh Suman said:
Jake,

This is from their website.

Balckmagic Cinema Camera 4K Tech Specs
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicproductioncamera4k



It seems to me that there are several different ways of arriving at compressed RAW(other than what Red has patented). NAB 2014 will bear this out further. [h=4][/h][h=4][/h]
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BMD calls it "visually lossless compressed CinemaDNG RAW". It's mostly semantics and not the same as compressed. For example LOG-like encoded image can be interpreted as compressed and visually lossless. That is one of the reasons why Kodak invented Cineon and why ARRI uses Log-C with Prores.
 
What if Arri announces a 4K camera with compressed RAW licensed from RED.... Now that would be interesting. Imagine a 4K Alexa with R3D's...
 
Great. So BMD is using semantics to it's own disadvantage by calling uncompressed RAW(Visually Lossless Compressed DNG RAW). Doesn't make sense to me but I will take your word for it. I don't see how Log implementation(Cineon or Log C) on Compressed Pro Res has anything to do with Compressed Raw(wavelet or through some other algorithm) which will be lossy no matter what BMD has to say about it.

There is substantial ambivalence around Redcode itself. It doesn't specify at what compression does the RED RAW become 12bit.

I am sure there is a valid reason why they don't call 2.5K Cinema Camera Raw: Visually Lossless Compressed.
 
I hope they have a fully working model of the KineMax at NAB... There's something about renders that makes me think "years" not "months" away...

ALSO, starting with 5.1.34, there's been an EUA or License or something on the cameras... Jarred said "more about it at NAB", but I've got no idea what it could be.
 
Mike P. said:
I hope they have a fully working model of the KineMax at NAB... There's something about renders that makes me think "years" not "months" away...

ALSO, starting with 5.1.34, there's been an EUA or License or something on the cameras... Jarred said "more about it at NAB", but I've got no idea what it could be.
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ipad/iphone control of the camera. Create looks, adjust settings, adjust curves, etc from an ipad.
 
I'd want that... But how/why would that require a software license on the camera? (or are you just guessing based on it being a software thing?)

OH MAN, just thought of another hopeful -- REDmote Pro... Am I right, or what?
 
Mike P. said:
I'd want that... But how/why would that require a software license on the camera? (or are you just guessing based on it being a software thing?)

OH MAN, just thought of another hopeful -- REDmote Pro... Am I right, or what?
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That's been hinted at for a while.

The license agreement is most likely preventing others from hacking the system and creating their own app. That would make sense to me.
 
TLS rehouse

TLS rehouse

Chad Bonanno said:
True Lens Company releasing a series of Nikon Rehoused lenses is what I am mostly excited for !
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We bought the 80-200 TLS, they did an awesome job. Best rehouse Ive ever seen.

Tough to tell the diff between this lens and the Ziess 70-200 at twice the price.
 
KineMax is not going to cost $3k...that's the initial deposit. Probably close to $20k I bet.
 
jake blackstone said:
I'm not a patent attorney. May be someone, who had read the actual patent can enlighten us. All I know, that Red vs Sony lawsuit is coming up. Actually, I don't even know that. All I know, that it had been filed.
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In February of 2013, Red filed for an injunction against Sony, claiming that several of its new CineAlta products, particularly the 4K-capable F65, infringed on patents the company held. They requested that Sony not only be forced to stop selling the cameras, but that they also be destroyed as well.[34] Sony filed a countersuit against Red in April of 2013, alleging that Red's entire product line infringed on Sony patents. In July 2013, both parties filed jointly for dismissal, and as of July 20, 2013, the case is closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company#Lawsuits
 
Sulekh Suman said:
Great. I don't see how Log implementation(Cineon or Log C) on Compressed Pro Res has anything to do with Compressed Raw(wavelet or through some other algorithm) which will be lossy no matter what BMD has to say about it.
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If I remember correctly, at the time of very limited available disc data rates and space considerations, Kodak implemented Cineon as means of lossless compression in order to express 12 bit of color depth in a 10 bit container, therefore losslessy compressing the image.
The same goes for ARRI Prores- 12 bit of Log-C Prores loosely equivalent to 14 bit of video encoded image. It's not quite the 16 bit of RAW recording, but it's close enough.
 
ERIC PECK said:
In February of 2013, Red filed for an injunction against Sony, claiming that several of its new CineAlta products, particularly the 4K-capable F65, infringed on patents the company held. They requested that Sony not only be forced to stop selling the cameras, but that they also be destroyed as well.[34] Sony filed a countersuit against Red in April of 2013, alleging that Red's entire product line infringed on Sony patents. In July 2013, both parties filed jointly for dismissal, and as of July 20, 2013, the case is closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company#Lawsuits
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Wow, that was a waste of everyone's time and Red's reputation. Suing Sony and requesting that all cameras out in the field be destroyed left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
 
Peter Moretti said:
Wow, that was a waste of everyone's time and Red's reputation. Suing Sony and requesting that all cameras out in the field be destroyed left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.
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On the other hand, RED was immediately perceived as an avante garde company that Giant old gaurd companies like Sony have to stoop to copy from in order to try and stay on par.

I don't think Jannard worries about any taste left in the mouths of people with no taste. He has a Dragon to his credit.

Plus I think the suit, although dropped, sent a warning to any others who might be tempted to copy RED intellectual property. RED will defend its patents.
 
Elsie N said:
On the other hand, RED was immediately perceived as an avante garde company that Giant old gaurd companies like Sony have to stoop to copy from in order to try and stay on par.

I don't think Jannard worries about any taste left in the mouths of people with no taste. He has a Dragon to his credit.

Plus I think the suit, although dropped, sent a warning to any others who might be tempted to copy RED intellectual property. RED will defend its patents.
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Reds patent is right up there with 'rounded corners'. No wonder they didnt go through with their lawsuit. its ridiculous.
 
If you don't fight for every patent violation - you could forfeit your future chance of enforcing it.

There may have therefore have been an unintentional reciprocal utility in their respective actions.

AJ
 
Antony Newman said:
If you don't fight for every patent violation - you could forfeit your future chance of enforcing it.

There may have therefore have been an unintentional reciprocal utility in their respective actions.

AJ
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Excellent point. Both companies' true target may be Chinese knock offs.
 
Although not a rumor, I'm hoping to see more action on the 4K production monitor front. TVLogic and a couple of other companies had some solutions last year in the 30"-55" range but they weren't exactly 100% color correction monitors per se, so hopefully there will be some new surprises that will be able to replace my 21" 1080p JVC.
 
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