Steven Caesare
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Not likely. The full demosiac + scaling requires too much processing horsepower for the RED One to do in-camera.
-sc
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Mysterium-X upgrade
- Thread starter Bal Deo
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Not likely. The full demosiac + scaling requires too much processing horsepower for the RED One to do in-camera.
-sc
- Moderator
- #22
Jeff Kilgroe
Well-known member
Yep, pretty much... It was discussed in the past and then dropped. I don't think the camera can handle it. All things subject to change, of course...
Justin Anderson
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Which really doesn't bother me at all.
My opinion would be that if you don't have the post production horsepower to convert 4K into 1080p then you shouldn't own a RED, or be in post production.
That's probably a bit harsh, but unless it would be an easy feature to add I'd rather that RED team spent their efforts elsewhere. Like finishing scarlet!
Yousuf Abbasi
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Yeah but like Jerrod said, for Live Broadcast you can't just do it in post, so I understand why some people want it.
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- #25
Jeff Kilgroe
Well-known member
If you're doing any serious live broadcast type stuff, you will be feeding directly from SDI outputs into your switching / recording hardware. Or you will probably want a RED Rocket for on the fly CC and transcodes. I don't see the onboard 1080p recording to be a huge issue. Keep in mind that recording 1080p RGB, even 10-bit 4:2:2 vs. 4:4:4, would still occupy about the same amount of storage space or more compared to 3K 12-bit RAW.
Onboard 1080pFF RGB recording would be a nice option to have. But has no impact on any of my purchase decisions for the new cameras. Of course, I don't speak for everybody...
Onboard 1080pFF RGB recording would be a nice option to have. But has no impact on any of my purchase decisions for the new cameras. Of course, I don't speak for everybody...
Stuart English
Red Team
RGB recording
RGB recording
Yes but live broadcasts don't occur in 1080p. Only 1080i or 720p.
RGB recording
Yes but live broadcasts don't occur in 1080p. Only 1080i or 720p.
Stephen Pruitt
Well-known member
So our $4500 buys us a new chip and a new chip only? Geez. I thought it would have new boards to allow it to take advantage of the new chip.
I can't see anyone upgrading their RED for $4500 if you can get a new Epic-X for $10,000. The RED upgrade doesn't seem like a very good deal at all.
But, perhaps, that was the point.
Stephen
I can't see anyone upgrading their RED for $4500 if you can get a new Epic-X for $10,000. The RED upgrade doesn't seem like a very good deal at all.
But, perhaps, that was the point.
Stephen
david farland
Well-known member
Steve,
you've missed the real point of upgrading the sensor on your R1, which is come FF35 time you're still got a R1 worth $17,500 to trade in for it. People that trade their R1 for an Epic will need to fork out another $32,000! If I wasn't in the hire game, I'd wait....upgrade my R1 sensor until the FF35 came along, in the mean time I'd still have a camera comparable to the Epic X.
D
you've missed the real point of upgrading the sensor on your R1, which is come FF35 time you're still got a R1 worth $17,500 to trade in for it. People that trade their R1 for an Epic will need to fork out another $32,000! If I wasn't in the hire game, I'd wait....upgrade my R1 sensor until the FF35 came along, in the mean time I'd still have a camera comparable to the Epic X.
D
- Thread starter
- #29
Bal Deo
Well-known member
David i was trying to get some clarification of the advantages of upgrading the sensor.
From the sounds of things I will not be getting "a camera comparable to the Epic X", hence my upgrade path is Epic-X.
I will not get higher frame rates and I will not get higher redcode.
I would rather spend $10,000 and get the features that will be worth every penny.
I don't feel the same with the upgrade of the sensor
Steven Caesare
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Wow.
I can appreciate that some folks may not feel the upgrade is a sufficient enough value proposition for them to invest. Fine.
But to say: "Geez. I thought it would have new boards to allow it to take advantage of the new chip."?
I think the connotation with that kind of phrasing is that Red is trying to put on over on you. Let's keep in mind:
-The upgrade will give you greater DR
-The upgrade will likely give you greater sensitivity/ISO rating
-There MAY be skew/reset time advantages (conjecture)
As I see it, you ARE getting significant advantage with the new chip. Perhaps another way to think of it is "Red had enough foresight to put a flexible architecture in place in the R1 body to give me significant additional capability with just a sensor upgrade."
Furthermore:
-You don't have to take advantage of the upgrade
-You can trade in your 1-2+ year old camera for FULL VALUE towards an Epic
-Red has ALREADY delivered more resolution/datarate than you expected to get with the existing Mysterium sensor (4.5k)... they could have deliberately tied those capabilities to the sensor upgrade to provide a sense of additional value.... but that's not their style.
Please go see if you get any of the above options with other camera vendors.
Expressing opinions is valid.. I just don't understand why people choose to do so in a style that's going to piss off the people who are working hard like no other vendor to provide amazing value.
-sc
I can appreciate that some folks may not feel the upgrade is a sufficient enough value proposition for them to invest. Fine.
But to say: "Geez. I thought it would have new boards to allow it to take advantage of the new chip."?
I think the connotation with that kind of phrasing is that Red is trying to put on over on you. Let's keep in mind:
-The upgrade will give you greater DR
-The upgrade will likely give you greater sensitivity/ISO rating
-There MAY be skew/reset time advantages (conjecture)
As I see it, you ARE getting significant advantage with the new chip. Perhaps another way to think of it is "Red had enough foresight to put a flexible architecture in place in the R1 body to give me significant additional capability with just a sensor upgrade."
Furthermore:
-You don't have to take advantage of the upgrade
-You can trade in your 1-2+ year old camera for FULL VALUE towards an Epic
-Red has ALREADY delivered more resolution/datarate than you expected to get with the existing Mysterium sensor (4.5k)... they could have deliberately tied those capabilities to the sensor upgrade to provide a sense of additional value.... but that's not their style.
Please go see if you get any of the above options with other camera vendors.
Expressing opinions is valid.. I just don't understand why people choose to do so in a style that's going to piss off the people who are working hard like no other vendor to provide amazing value.
-sc
david farland
Well-known member
The point is don't consider the R1 to Epic X upgrade in isolation.....if you intend to purchase a FF35 or higher.
Scenario 1
R1 to Epic X upgrade will cost you about ~$5K (depending on free accessories)
Epic X to FF35 upgrade will cost you $32K. Total $37K
Scenario 2
R1 to FF35 upgrade will cost you $14.5K ($19K if you upgrade sensor).
You're paying $18K for the luxury of having 4.5K instead of 5K resolution for six months
your call....
D
- Moderator
- #32
Jeff Kilgroe
Well-known member
I ultimately intend to own the EPIC 645. The R1 to Mysterium-X upgrade doesn't interest me all that much, but I can see where it would appeal to others. Lots of unknowns at this point. I personally will probably do the upgrade to EPIC-X since it looks to be a nice upgrade from the One and there could be significant savings with those included modules. It could also be easily a year or more after EPIC-X before we see the FF35, let alone the 645. Many customers and clients I fear will demand EPIC-X over the RED One just because it's the newer and better camera. Regardless of whether they actually need the features or not or even if they understand the technical differences.
I think the Mysterium-X upgrade for the RED One is definitely a good option for some people. It's an upgrade that could help maintain their customer base while they wait for an EPIC-X upgrade. It should help keep a RED One owner competitive amongst others getting the EPIC-X if they can only afford the sensor upgrade and not the full $10K+ to trade-in and build a DSMC kit. At least with the RED One sensor upgrade, the camera would be gaining the new sensor along with its improved sensitivity, range, etc.. Overall better image quality. The upgraded RED One will have functionality not available on the Scarlet S35, such as ramping, sustained 120fps frame rate, etc..
At this time, we don't know how long it will be for the FF35 to arrive after the EPIC-X and we don't know the cost of the modules. I personally may be perfectly content getting the sensor upgrade for the One and waiting for the FF35 brain or even the 645 brain, but it's really dependent on what the savings is by getting the included modules with the EPIC-X upgrade.
I can also see a valid argument for just buying the EPIC-X outright since I can do that as a RED owner and then keeping my One and upgrading the sensor in it and saving it for later to trade-in on the FF35 or 645.
For anyone that will be shooting EPIC-X or Scarlet, any of the Mysterium-X sensor cameras and who will also be keeping a RED One, I think the sensor upgrade will make perfect sense. That way, the RED One shares the same sensor and image properties of their new EPIC and Scarlet cameras while they keep their One for later trade-in or just to keep it for sentimental / nostalgic value.
I think the Mysterium-X upgrade for the RED One is definitely a good option for some people. It's an upgrade that could help maintain their customer base while they wait for an EPIC-X upgrade. It should help keep a RED One owner competitive amongst others getting the EPIC-X if they can only afford the sensor upgrade and not the full $10K+ to trade-in and build a DSMC kit. At least with the RED One sensor upgrade, the camera would be gaining the new sensor along with its improved sensitivity, range, etc.. Overall better image quality. The upgraded RED One will have functionality not available on the Scarlet S35, such as ramping, sustained 120fps frame rate, etc..
At this time, we don't know how long it will be for the FF35 to arrive after the EPIC-X and we don't know the cost of the modules. I personally may be perfectly content getting the sensor upgrade for the One and waiting for the FF35 brain or even the 645 brain, but it's really dependent on what the savings is by getting the included modules with the EPIC-X upgrade.
I can also see a valid argument for just buying the EPIC-X outright since I can do that as a RED owner and then keeping my One and upgrading the sensor in it and saving it for later to trade-in on the FF35 or 645.
For anyone that will be shooting EPIC-X or Scarlet, any of the Mysterium-X sensor cameras and who will also be keeping a RED One, I think the sensor upgrade will make perfect sense. That way, the RED One shares the same sensor and image properties of their new EPIC and Scarlet cameras while they keep their One for later trade-in or just to keep it for sentimental / nostalgic value.