Mysterium-X issue / "Beta" use only?

[Eric Haase]

Sharing tech problems with new gear and new firmware on the boards helps us all. If there's an easy solution like black shading 3 times we can all do it and not suffer ruined footage. If someone goes straight to RED with an issue, gets it resolved and none of us hear about it, we might encounter the same thing. The reputation of the camera will be what it is based on long term experience and it will rise above any small issues that are posted here. People shouldn't panic but they should be allowed to discuss their experiences (both good and bad). Posting technical problems will educate fellow redusers. This board should be more than a cheerleader section.

 

[David Battistella]

Right David, so better yet, let's leave everyone else in the dark if we experience any issues out there. Certainly wouldn't want to spoil everyone's excitement be sharing useful information, giving others a heads up, or helping someone solve a problem they are experiencing.

Perhaps your job and reputation isn't on the line on costly productions, but personally, I don't want to have ANY issues on my watch. Whether it's unavoidable or not, having unusable footage or having a camera go down on a shoot doesn't make a great impression of your work.

I think I'll stick with the sharing of info and be proactive. Like the Build 30 thread where others having experienced crushed blacks on the original sensor... Well now I know what to look outfit on my shoot tomorrow with a Mysterium R1 with Build 30.

You make some pretty big assumptions and you are pretty defensive.

Where did I ever say not to post information. I'd bet that the best people to ask to solve your problem would be RED. They have excellent support. I don't disagree with this thread.

The contrary. I was even suggesting that things be tested more before being released.

David

 

[David Battistella]

Sharing tech problems with new gear and new firmware on the boards helps us all. If there's an easy solution like black shading 3 times we can all do it and not suffer ruined footage. If someone goes straight to RED with an issue, gets it resolved and none of us hear about it, we might encounter the same thing. The reputation of the camera will be what it is based on long term experience and it will rise above any small issues that are posted here. People shouldn't panic but they should be allowed to discuss their experiences (both good and bad). Posting technical problems will educate fellow redusers. This board should be more than a cheerleader section.

Totally agree.

 

[Carsten Fenstermacher]

I believe you're confusing what is a service / malfunctioning problem with something that might happen on all cameras. If you have a problem that happens because of misuse or just plain old stuff like a component failing, it's a repair circumstance that is inevitable with every type of hardware/camera. Reds seem to get used a ton and there are a ton of them out there so it's quite natural for equipment to get beat up. I'm not sure if that something that red can control but from my experience it's something they'll fix very quickly when it does happen.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Sharing tech problems with new gear and new firmware on the boards helps us all. If there's an easy solution like black shading 3 times we can all do it and not suffer ruined footage. If someone goes straight to RED with an issue, gets it resolved and none of us hear about it, we might encounter the same thing. The reputation of the camera will be what it is based on long term experience and it will rise above any small issues that are posted here. People shouldn't panic but they should be allowed to discuss their experiences (both good and bad). Posting technical problems will educate fellow redusers. This board should be more than a cheerleader section.

I totally get that Eric. I don't think anyone is saying this board shouldn't be a forum for sharing of ideas and concerns. On the contrary, most would agree that that's exactly what it should be. When someone has a problem and contacts Red about it first, Red will know if such a problem has been reported and what recommendations they have to fix it. They will also be able to tell that person if it is operator error on their end, or if it is a recognized bug that has been reported and is being worked on by RedTeam. The bottom line is that is the fastest way to get the straight answers - which is what someone in that situation is after.

Then that person should think about going onto the Red User, posting what they've experienced, and the fix that RED has recommended for them.

Going through the above sequence serves the following positive purposes for Red User, Red Team, and board visitors - basically everyone:

1) It solves the problem for the person with the problem in the fastest possible way. Isn't that what we want when we have a problem? Yup...

2) It keeps that person from looking uneducated on an open forum by posting their supposedly unique problem just to later find out that Red has been aware of it, and that Red and others have previously posted about that problem and its solution. The Red User search tool is everyone's friend!

3) It avoids the creation and spread of FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. When lots of people constantly start threads at the drop of a hat for every problem they experience (or worse yet, just hear about), that creates a constant ongoing problem for an already very hard-working Red tech support team, who then are caught up in the time-consuming task of simply defusing FUD posts on the forums. This takes them away from solving real, non-FUD problems for the rest of us, who have given Red the courtesy of taking our problems directly to them.

4) For those of us who own and use RED cameras FUD also causes us ongoing nightmares. We then must endure a constant cavalcade of worried clients and associates who have heard FUD rumors, and are freaking out. That then requires us to take valuable time from our businesses to undo the misinformation and FUD that others who are usually new to using Red cameras have carelessly spread by their knee-jerk reactions to supposed problems. That costs us time to explain and debunk - and time is money.

If you analyze the posts on this thread, to a person the longtime, early serial number Red camera owners agree with my position on my above points - me, Blair Paulsen, Mark Pederson (Offhollywood), Dino, Digital FX, and many others on this thread. We're not "chearleaders", but rather highly experienced owners, users, and problem solvers of our Red cameras. All of us early adopters obviously have the flick on Red as a company, Red tech support, Red User, the effects of FUD, the fastest way to solve tech issues with Red cameras, how to use the Red User search tool, and the learning curve necessary for those who are just now adopting Red. Everyone starts learning about Red at some point - and that's fine.

What we're asking is that people seriously consider taking their tech issues directly to Red, get the answers, then if they feel moved to do so, start a tread about the issue and Red's advice to them. This will really help solve or avoid issues 1 through 4 I've itemized above.

We're a big family of professionals here now. We come from many niches and genres in the industry. This is definitely a place to share and discuss ideas and concerns about Red. The flow of those ideas and concerns is simply much easier when we use the most streamlined avenues to present and solve those issues - and as a former moderator of this board the above are my recommendations.

Peace and good shooting to everyone!

 

[dino g]

Gibby:

Awesome post....I could not agree with you more. not trying to be a cheerleader, although i am sure to many of you that is what i am. for me, i have takens jim's words very seriously, he asked us kindly to deal with his team first with problems, then if the problem goes unresolved, to deal with him and then and only then, go public with it.

i have personally followed that policy and i have experienced an unprecedented level of professionalism from brent, shawn, nick, brian, kelly, matt, jarred, ted, big john and of course jim and many others down in the OC. granted i was an early adopter and i can be a whinny little bitch sometimes, but i think that most of you owners know that by in large red is killer at customer satisfaction and if 1% of every other company you deal with was 1/3 as good, most of your frustrations in life would disappear.

moreover, i challenge anyone on this forum to name one company that does CS better than red....

good luck and i will share some of the very cool shoots i have been on in the last week with you all soon...


....like...entourage, nike with kobe and Rodrigo Preito, american idol and more....


see you out there...

dino

 

[CJ Roy]

If I understand correctly, the circumstances of this particular technical issue go beyond anyone's skill set. This was an end of the day issue that couldn't be seen live, but only once offloaded and viewed. Unless you're downloading after every take, reviewing the footage and giving the ok for production to resume, this could have happened to any of us, no matter what serial number you have, if you own the camera or if you're just a crew member working with a rented camera.

This particular camera is a low number serial, from a rental house in LA. Those rental houses have close relationships with clients who use them often and they're going to be fairly honest about any issues they've experienced with brand new equipment. They have to be, they're not about to screw over any of their clients and intentionally sending them out with faulty gear. The clients will find other suppliers if that's the case and ultimately make them look bad.

So being that this was from a rental house, though could have happened anywhere, production was wrapped once the problem was noticed, the issue became known because it was not resolved. The DIT on the shoot posted his reluctance to come here first and it wasn't what he did. The tech issue was only known because there were several eyes on it, and had yet to be resolved.

Technical problems need to be shared, answered and resolved. Sharing them here, usually expedites that process and the community exceedingly comes through. And isn't that the point of this forum? To help, learn and come to a place where you can be helped? Certainly this isn't just a viral marketing tool, unless I'm mistaken. If you start trying to silence genuine tech issues, they'll simply start going to other forums and not on Red's which would be bad for all. If you think this is FUD, imagine the alternatives!

But even on Red's, there still isn't a clear answer to what happened, why it happened and what fixes it, should it ever arise again.

As Red states, "BETA test firmware - not recommended for use on commercial productions." Productions are continually ignoring that, and this is the result. To me, that should be the real debate here.

Thanks.

 

[dino g]

i agree with you too cj, that is why i personally am posting here to spread knowledge.

to this specific issue, someone at red, whom shall go nameless to protect our confidential relationship, told me that this particular issue on this particular camera came down to the law of averages. 5,6,7,000 plus cameras and this issue happened on 4 or 5, which is less than 1 in a thousand. not to defend but to say these are hand made units, they and we are human and parts come from suppliers that also have humans working on them. so every part/camera will not be 100% the same. i am glad chris posted this, it allowed me to skip build 30.3.1 altogether and potentially avoid this problem with #0031...can't wait for build 31...that will be EPIC for #31....

dino

 

[CJ Roy]

i am glad chris posted this, it allowed me to skip build 30.3.1 altogether and potentially avoid this problem with #0031

Right, I think this is exactly what Probst, Haase and myself are saying here. Without this thread, you would have had no idea to skip that build, unless the tech issue happened to you. Fortunately for you and I, the beta testing was left to someone else's shoot.

 

[Deanan]

Right, I think this is exactly what Probst, Haase and myself are saying here. Without this thread, you would have had no idea to skip that build, unless the tech issue happened to you. Fortunately for you and I, the beta testing was left to someone else's shoot.

That image artifact is not related to 30.3.1.
It's most likely related to something specific to the hardware of that camera and there are a number of things we would look at before diagnosing it such as something coming loose internally, etc.

It could be related to the beta build but most likely not specific to 30.3.1.
The issue could be in 30.4.1 or before 30.3.1.

Threads like this speculate to a cause but are dangerous in that the information provided is reliable because it could easily cause someone to make the wrong choice based on incomplete diagnosis. I've lost count of the hundreds of times I've come across grossly innacurate information caused by people guessing at causes based on a couple of reports on reduser.

Our tech support there to help, please give them a chance to do their jobs properly as the first line of action.

 

[David Battistella]

Gibby,

You nailed it again, in a most articulate way. FUD. That is what I was getting at in my original post. It seems I spend so much time answering the "But I heard.....blah, blah, blah, questions that arise.

Many thanks for all of the great insight in this post by a very trusted group of owners, users, etc.

Dino. I agree, RED's CS is tops, really impressive.

David