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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mysterium-X DRTC Test results

J

JonathanF

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Jim,

You mentioned that you had purchased a DRTC from Arri and were going to run the Mysterium-X through the gauntlet to get the real measured dynamic range.

Have you received the DRTC yet and if so have you run the tests?

I, along with others, are waiting with baited breath for the test results and the supporting test data.

J
 
JonathanF said:
Jim,

You mentioned that you had purchased a DRTC from Arri and were going to run the Mysterium-X through the gauntlet to get the real measured dynamic range.

Have you received the DRTC yet and if so have you run the tests?

I, along with others, are waiting with baited breath for the test results and the supporting test data.

J
Click to expand...

I would be very interested in this as well. Hopefully Red has had better luck of getting a hold of the chart then I have. From my conversations with Arri, they are still working out the pricing and the distribution of the chart and have not been able to give me a straight answer as to when or how I can get one from them ...
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
I would be very interested in this as well. Hopefully Red has had better luck of getting a hold of the chart then I have. From my conversations with Arri, they are still working out the pricing and the distribution of the chart and have not been able to give me a straight answer as to when or how I can get one from them ...
Click to expand...

Ryan,

Stephan at Arri can arrange the purchase for you. PM me and I'll give you his numbers and email. He's in Palm Springs this week, but he's answering email.

J
 
Done- thanks. :)
 
Well, Red should have their DRTC by now. I haven't heard anything on the real dynamic range tests. Did I miss a posting by Red with the results?

Given that they have a cool new piece pf testing gadgetry in house I can't imagine they haven't played with it.

Guys?
 
If I was trying to post some measurements that I wanted to be taken seriously, I'd want to do a lot of experiments first, on several different cameras and in several different ways. I'd compare with existing published data to see if they agree, and if they don't, I'd want to understand why. I'd make sure I understand what the tester is doing and how it works, and how its calibration compares with other standards. All this is probably not done in a few days. Just sayin'...
 
jbeale said:
If I was trying to post some measurements that I wanted to be taken seriously, I'd want to do a lot of experiments first, on several different cameras and in several different ways. I'd compare with existing published data to see if they agree, and if they don't, I'd want to understand why. I'd make sure I understand what the tester is doing and how it works, and how its calibration compares with other standards. All this is probably not done in a few days. Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

Shooting DRTC tests isn't the kind of thing that takes a lot of time to do.

The cameras have already been compared against a number of competitor cameras independently. The tests I am aware of took 1 day with a number of cameras by people who know what they are doing.

There's more than one DRTC in LA and it's not like it's some complicated piece of testing equipment. I'd be pretty shocked if after all this time and all these cameras delivered to end users if they didn't have this part (shooting charts) pretty well figured out.

If they are having technical problems getting tests done (or having technical understanding problems) I'd be shocked. These people are all sharp guys.
 
Jarred Land said:
Smarten up Jonathan....
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I'm not trying to be a smart ass Jarred, but there have been some claims made that seem a little surprising for those who have extensive technical backgrounds.

No one is saying the MX isn't a monumental improvement over the original sensor.

Jim posted on the CML that he was buying a DRTC after some of these DR claims were called into question. All I'm asking is if there's been some follow through.
 
JonathanF said:
Jim,

You mentioned that you had purchased a DRTC from Arri and were going to run the Mysterium-X through the gauntlet to get the real measured dynamic range.

Have you received the DRTC yet and if so have you run the tests?

I, along with others, are waiting with baited breath for the test results and the supporting test data.

J
Click to expand...

Haha. One of the other camera companies makes fun of you for being a smart ass and annoying pain. You're building quite the reputation there :) (smiley because it looks like that's your intention )
 
Carsten Fenstermacher said:
Haha. One of the other camera companies makes fun of you for being a smart ass and annoying pain. You're building quite the reputation there :) (smiley because it looks like that's your intention )
Click to expand...

Carsten,

It's hardly my intention.

Jim said he was going to do the tests and I, as a working professional in the film industry (since the Reagan administration), am genuinely interested in the results.

A 13 stop camera would be a genuine advantage in some situations over other existing systems which lack that kind of DR. Knowing how much DR a camera has at what S/N ratio and ISO rating is genuinely useful information for a working cinematographer.

So I'm just asking the obvious question.

There's a difference between being an ass and asking hard questions.

It's perfectly acceptable to call someone out for being a prick, but not for asking genuinely valid questions and then pressing for honest answers.

J
 
Jonathan... I am the king of passive-aggressiveness so I can smell it a mile away. There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but you gotta work on your delivery.

You are a smart guy and probably could do alot of good, but you are quickly distancing yourself from the majority of our team from the way you act here and in real life ( i.e. RED DAY )
 
Jonathan...

My bet is that these results will come as soon as RED have finished their testing...
I think - and this is still my GUESS - that upon receiving the charts, they'll be as much a part of the tools RED uses to tune their chip, as anything else.

As soon they've tuned the MX to their satisfaction, they'll start releasing charts.

There will be plenty of tests, not done by RED to see in the coming weeks/months/days in comparison with anything from an HVX200 to an Alexa.

If you're not shooting tomorrow and have to pit MX against an Alexa to make up your mind, just breathe and wait. Untill Alexa is ready... -:)
 
JonathanF said:
Shooting DRTC tests isn't the kind of thing that takes a lot of time to do.

The cameras have already been compared against a number of competitor cameras independently. The tests I am aware of took 1 day with a number of cameras by people who know what they are doing.

There's more than one DRTC in LA and it's not like it's some complicated piece of testing equipment. I'd be pretty shocked if after all this time and all these cameras delivered to end users if they didn't have this part (shooting charts) pretty well figured out.

If they are having technical problems getting tests done (or having technical understanding problems) I'd be shocked. These people are all sharp guys.
Click to expand...

I'm as interested as anyone in the dynamic range of cameras. But your questions are of the "have you stopped beating your wife" type, and not helpful. As always with any such tests, I'd always want to do them myself anyway, with my charts and my methodology that fits into the way I want to work.

Albert
 
Jonathan... weren't you the guy that was so disruptive at RED Day?

We did order the Arri test chart and as soon as we get it and figure out how to use it... finish our sensor calibration and do the tests, we'll post the results.

We have been quick to say that Hollywood DI did the over/under DR tests and they looked good to us. We also have said we have a calibration issue with the M-X sensor that we need to solve before doing anymore published tests. People don't seem to remember the caveat... even when you tell them. I have also made it clear several times that DR test results vary widely depending on methodology. Having the Arri test is great... and we'll use it. We'll also submit to other methodology as well.

In the meantime... people seem to be validating what we have said all along. The M-X sensor is at least two stops more DR than M. Several are shooting features and have no issues with images or cameras.

I think you need to decide if you are going to try to be as disruptive here as you were at our event.

Jim
 
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Jim,

I think you probably have me confused with someone else. I don't ever remember standing up in the room and making a public spectacle of myself, it's not in my nature.

Any criticism is intended to be constructive, but it may not always be formatted in a way that people like. I'm a filmmaker, not a politician.

There does seem to be some defensiveness to some of the criticism in general, whether it's from me or others, but I believe that anyone talking the time or energy to provide it is well meaning, otherwise why bother?

I understand there are people shooting with MX, and it appears to be a great improvement over the M, I have said that myself. I look forward to the test results. I would be pleased to have a 13 stop camera as an option.

J
 
JonathanF said:
Jim,

I think you probably have me confused with someone else. I don't ever remember standing up in the room and making a public spectacle of myself, it's not in my nature.

Any criticism is intended to be constructive, but it may not always be formatted in a way that people like. I'm a filmmaker, not a politician.

There does seem to be some defensiveness to some of the criticism in general, whether it's from me or others, but I believe that anyone talking the time or energy to provide it is well meaning, otherwise why bother?

I understand there are people shooting with MX, and it appears to be a great improvement over the M, I have said that myself. I look forward to the test results. I would be pleased to have a 13 stop camera as an option.

J
Click to expand...

Jonathan... read your posts on this thread alone.

Jim
 
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