Mysterium Native ISO?

[Zak Ray]

I've been researching native ISO for Red cameras. There's some conflicting information out there, but it seems like 400-2000 is the officially recommend range for the M-X and Dragon (documented here: http://www.red.com/learn/red-101/iso-speed-revisited).

But I haven't found any official numbers for the original Mysterium. Does anyone know?

thanks!

 

[JayEmm]

I believe the original R1 Mysterium sensor was rated at 320 ISO.

 

[Zak Ray]

Thanks, JayEmm! So the Mysterium had a single native value, not the "recommended range" of later sensors?

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Everything is a range. What is acceptable noise for one individual is completely unacceptable for another, etc.

Stephen

 

[Zak Ray]

Of course, but my understanding is that most manufacturers use "native ISO" to refer to the best balance of noise and dynamic range. Arri, for example, suggests ISO 800 for the Alexa, which provides 7 stops of latitude over and under. ISO 400 provides less.

RED, on the other hand, claims that full dynamic range is maintained on all ISOs, and so they just recommend a range of 400-2000 with the M-X and Dragon. I'm trying to find out if that claim holds true for the original Mysterium as well.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Native ISO is in my knowledge the base exposure range; meaning that it's the exposure that has the most DR because it's what the sensor see without gain. Everything above is a gain algorithm. ISO 800 is a gained ISO 320 image. Same goes for Dragon, even though the DR loss is minimal compared to MX.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

We try to recommend a good "starting point" for your exposure choices. For the original Mysterium sensor we recommended ISO320 as that starting point, although you could shoot higher or lower if you were careful. Similarly for MX we recommend a starting point of ISO800.

Graeme

 

[Zak Ray]

Thanks Graeme! So if I were to tell someone what the native ISO is, would you rather I say 800 or 400-2000?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

There isn't a native ISO as that concept doesn't make sense with how our cameras work. What does make sense is a recommended starting point for your exposure choices. The whole "native ISO" thing came about due to how some DSLRs handled ISO gain, either via analogue gain or in combination with digital gain (ahead of raw recording). By doing gain in this destructive manner (destructive because it's a burned in choice into the image data) people would want to pick a "do least harm" ISO setting, and that's where the notion of "native ISO" came about from.

Graeme

 

[Zak Ray]

Thanks, that helps a lot!

So the "recommended starting point" for Mysterium is 320, for M-X and Dragon is 800?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes.

Graeme

 

[Nick Morrison]

That said, Dragon LLO at 800 looks much better IMHO than MX at 800. We used to shoot MX at 320 2.8, for perfect clean capture. We would push MX to 800 at 2.8 or F4 sometimes, and that could look good at times also...there's always been a lot of wiggle room.

But Dragon LLO 800 at 2.8 is almost spotless. We've been shooting Dragon INSIDE/Run N Gun with minimal lighting, at 96fps and getting spotless results. Sort of blowing my mind.

 

[Daniel Shojaei]

I remember it was rated for 320ISO

 

[JayEmm]

320 was quite a good starting point too as if memory serves, 500T film with an 85 filter on it comes out at 320 ASA, daylight balanced.