My Rocket is really buggy with Premier!

[Christopher Barrett]

CS 6. Latest RR drivers and firmware. At Full Debayer my rocket doesn't yield realtime 5k, no surprise there. Drag is it won't even play at lesser debayers. 1/2 and below and the image just freezes while the playhead travels left to right. As soon as I disable the RR in Premier, my sequence plays great, my system can play back full 5k at 1/2 res in Premier with no dropped frames.

The Rocket works great in RCX and seems good in Resolve.

Thoughts?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

While what you're describing seems a bit off, selecting a lower debayer resolution or quality on the Rocket does not speed up Rocket operation. The Rocket *ALWAYS* does a full resolution / full quality decode process. It's usefulness in Premiere is more for final render output and not so much for playback during editing. At lower res playback / edit, you incur the additional step of downscaling to your chosen resolution. I often keep the Rocket disabled in Premiere while I'm editing for this reason -- on faster workstations, the Rocket becomes a bottleneck when not working at full debayer quality!

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Thanks, Jeff... as you do, I was thinking to save the Rocket just for final renders. Actually, I only ever render R3ds from Resolve so I reckon I'll just leave it off in Premier.

 

[Brad Allen]

While what you're describing seems a bit off, selecting a lower debayer resolution or quality on the Rocket does not speed up Rocket operation. The Rocket *ALWAYS* does a full resolution / full quality decode process. It's usefulness in Premiere is more for final render output and not so much for playback during editing. At lower res playback / edit, you incur the additional step of downscaling to your chosen resolution. I often keep the Rocket disabled in Premiere while I'm editing for this reason -- on faster workstations, the Rocket becomes a bottleneck when not working at full debayer quality!

Good to hear you say this regarding the RR Jeff, as I hadn't realised this in the past and had been misinforming people - I'm going to go and correct some posts.

Do you have any idea why on a hardware level this is the case? If a RR can debayer a 3k file at full res, why can't it debayer a 5k file at 3k etc?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Do you have any idea why on a hardware level this is the case? If a RR can debayer a 3k file at full res, why can't it debayer a 5k file at 3k etc?

That is a question for RED. The Rocket always does a full quality, full resolution decode of the image frames. So there is no speed advantage to specifying a lower resolution. Of course, playback via the Rocket at lower resolutions is smoother because the downscaling happens on the card and therefore needs a lower transaction speed between the card and the system, less RAM to cache frames, etc..

The Rocket becomes a bottleneck on faster workstations unless you're working at full res or quality. The reason being is that when you step down to half-res, a current dual Xeon or similar workstation can actually crank those frames out FASTER than a Rocket card can. I've encountered many instances where the frame decoding in Premiere on a 16-core (32 thread) workstation will overrun the Rocket and can stumble over it causing other issues. It's just in the way. For final renderings where the full resolution decode from the Rocket isn't going to be a bottleneck in light of everything else being done, then the Rocket makes sense. I switch it on.

I do most all my final rendering out of Resolve, AE or Nuke anyway, [almost] never out of Premiere, so that's another factor to consider.... And those apps use the Rocket exclusively for full resolution/ quality render output.

 

[Brad Allen]

Cool - yeah that all makes complete sense when given that it will only work at full res. Makes the RR an even harder pill to swallow as the march of CPU performance improvements continues to go on.

Thanks for your detailed explanation

 

[Jan Balster]

This may seem like a dumb question, but how do you turn the Rocket on or off just for the render?

I've had the same problem as Christopher where PPro does better when I don't use the Rocket for editing.

Thanks for the help.

- Jan

 

[Mike Harrington]

to turn off rocket....just go into source settings for 1 clip and turn 'use rocket' to 'none'

that will disable for all clips....

for those finding buggy experiences...are you editing 5kHD....cause there is some lingering issues with that

i have been stung by 5kHD recently.....adobe does not play well with it....render times are horrendous....
but this will happen with or without rocket....just avoid 5kHD with adobe...5k is ok

 

[Jeff McCoy]

Having the exact same issue however I cannot get the rocket to work at all in CS6. It just freezes but the audio plays. As soon as I turn off the card everything works. It worked in cs5.5 and I do have the latest firmware and drivers as well as the adobe labs plug-ins. I'm fine keeping the rocket turned off for my edit but would love to utilize it for my final export rendering. Works perfectly in redcine v 17.
dell T7500 wworkstation win 7 pro x64
dual quad-core xenon (8 core)
48gb ram
ocz revodrive 3 x2 pcie ssd C drive
r3d files on an external g-Speed q via esata (raid 5)
nVidia quadro 5000 gpu

any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

 

[Jeff McCoy]

Having the exact same issue however I cannot get the rocket to work at all in CS6. It just freezes but the audio plays. As soon as I turn off the card everything works. It worked in cs5.5 and I do have the latest firmware and drivers as well as the adobe labs plug-ins. I'm fine keeping the rocket turned off for my edit but would love to utilize it for my final export rendering. Works perfectly in redcine v 17.
dell T7500 wworkstation win 7 pro x64
dual quad-core xenon (8 core)
48gb ram
ocz revodrive 3 x2 pcie ssd C drive
r3d files on an external g-Speed q via esata (raid 5)
nVidia quadro 5000 gpu

any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

UPDATE: Reinstalled the Adobe Labs plug-ins for CS6 and everything plays great in Premiere exept the 16x9 formats such as 5K 16x9. Hope Adobe updates this soon because this is primarily what I shoot with now.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I was going to say the sound but no picture really looks like a plugin problem...

I have been thinking...we really need a sticky post for the labs plugin....
I would say 1/2 of the issues reported here are related to the labs plugins...

Especially for people coming from the final cut world.....it has been a little discombobulated with no installer...plus the fact that updates were overwriting the plugin...(not sure if that is the case with 6.03)

 

[Mark Toia]

While what you're describing seems a bit off, selecting a lower debayer resolution or quality on the Rocket does not speed up Rocket operation. The Rocket *ALWAYS* does a full resolution / full quality decode process. It's usefulness in Premiere is more for final render output and not so much for playback during editing. At lower res playback / edit, you incur the additional step of downscaling to your chosen resolution. I often keep the Rocket disabled in Premiere while I'm editing for this reason -- on faster workstations, the Rocket becomes a bottleneck when not working at full debayer quality!

You serious ! ... Wow... That's like really shit to know. I thought RR would amp up Prem to like another world.

I hope ADOBE starts to pull there finger out with Prem CS6 a bit more.. Red gamma3 update is a long time coming... , video and audio layer sync as you lift clips... RGB curves had no keyrframe ability... Reipple delete is crap...
lots of silly little bugs within Prem that you would think would have been tidied up already...

Thanks Jeff... Good to know.


PS.. Im back in FCP7 today... Haven't touched it for a few months, as I have been persisting with Prem6.. And forgot how smooth and easy and fast FCP 7 is...
I wish the day Prem6 can get it all together.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Mark, you could always try Media Composer or Symphony 6.5.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

You serious ! ... Wow... That's like really shit to know. I thought RR would amp up Prem to like another world.

I hope ADOBE starts to pull there finger out with Prem CS6 a bit more.. Red gamma3 update is a long time coming... , video and audio layer sync as you lift clips... RGB curves had no keyrframe ability... Reipple delete is crap...
lots of silly little bugs within Prem that you would think would have been tidied up already...

Thanks Jeff... Good to know.


PS.. Im back in FCP7 today... Haven't touched it for a few months, as I have been persisting with Prem6.. And forgot how smooth and easy and fast FCP 7 is...
I wish the day Prem6 can get it all together.

Lol Mark...I have the opposite feelings....I went back to FCP7 to work on something specific for a client and I couldn't stand how antiquated and picky FCP7 is... Cs6 felt like a real workhorse in comparison and you could throw at it anything form any format, from any camera at any resolution/frame rates and it just works....On the other hand I was forced to transcode everything to a QuickTime format for FCP7 to work half decently... =0

 

[Mark Toia]

Mark, you could always try Media Composer or Symphony 6.5.

Does media composer edit Raw R3D's ?

I used AVID for years, got of it about 6 years ago for FCP... so much easier, faster.. But I have heard good things about the new media composer, I should give it another look, for old time sake.

 

[Mark Toia]

Lol Mark...I have the opposite feelings....I went back to FCP7 to work on something specific for a client and I couldn't stand how antiquated and picky FCP7 is... Cs6 felt like a real workhorse in comparison and you could throw at it anything form any format, from any camera at any resolution/frame rates and it just works....On the other hand I was forced to transcode everything to a QuickTime format for FCP7 to work half decently... =0

Completely agree with the "any cameras codec format thing" thats a huge Premier +

Hey question...
For the life of me, I cannot work this out... in Prem 6.... When you lift a clip up from video 1 up to video 2 or 3, 4 etc... The audio does not follow the clip down to Audio layer 2,3, 4... The Audio layer just stays on Audio layer 1 destroying what ever is on audio layer 1.
How do you get the Audio to go down ans the clip goes up...
Am i not pressing or clicking a button. Looked everywhere in the tutorials... Completely got me stumped. Premier, cannot be that destructive.

 

[Christopher Barrett]

When you click any track in premier, it becomes subtly hilighted and becomes the default destination for any moves. You can also protect tracks by clicking the padlock. If you lock tracks one and two then the audio you add will be forced to track three... of course that doesn't work if your audio is already on track 1. Hmm....

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

yes Mark that part is an annoyance...the way I work around it is simply put your mouse cursor on the audio track of the video file you want to move....move that audio down to audio layer 2 (or 3 or 4 etc...)so it's not on the same track as the adjacent clip and then you can move your video layer up to video layer 2 ...after that you can freely move it around and it won't overwrite or destroy your audio on layer 1 (since it's no longer on the same track)...it's a pain but premiere is set up in "over write" editing mode as default. Not sure if there is a way to change it.

 

[Elsie N]

yes Mark that part is an annoyance...the way I work around it is simply put your mouse cursor on the audio track of the video file you want to move....move that audio down to audio layer 2 (or 3 or 4 etc...)so it's not on the same track as the adjacent clip and then you can move your video layer up to video layer 2 ...after that you can freely move it around and it won't overwrite or destroy your audio on layer 1 (since it's no longer on the same track)...it's a pain but premiere is set up in "over write" editing mode as default. Not sure if there is a way to change it.

That's what I do as well, and happily, the audio and video are easy to keep in synch this way.

 

[Mark Toia]

I think I just have to get use to it.... Some things drive me nuts about it.... other things are a god send.
3 things I'd love for them to fix... and I'd jump over full time.