My RED ONE (arrival date tomorrow) has just been Rendered OBSOLETE

[Johann Schulz]

breizo, don't worry, you're somebody. ;>)

 

[Brice Ansel]

Hé hé I wasn't talking about that.
Brice

 

[Jonas Nyström]

I just spent $20,000 + and was likely to spend more on a camera that is still on the FED EX truck and already this camera has just been "RENDERED OBSOLETE" by the people who promised me (us) that it never would.

I sort of expected this from the EPIC-- but now Scarlet is a substantially better camera than my yet unboxed RED ONE.

(Oh, by the way. For a year I've been told the RED ONE is 12 MP. Today's news says 9.2. What the hell is with that.)

This morning I sort of feel like RED did an Indiana Jones on me South Park style.

Still, You have a great camera now. Scarlet and Epic is still far away (i've waited a good year for my Red, 6 month later than estimated). And I'm sure you can return the camera if not satified.

 

[cjethomas]

I think the operative word in "rendering obsolescence obsolete" is the word "rendering."

Later today, you'll have a fully working RED ONE camera.

Scarlet and Epic currently exist as renders only. No firm release dates, no firm specs, nothing. Today's announcement was a roadmap of what could be released. Until the brains exist in the real world, there is no more reason to believe today's versions of Scarlet and Epic than the versions announced earlier this year.

Like the others have said, if you needed a camera today, then there's no reason to be disappointed. If you didn't, then why buy ONE in the first place?

JET

 

[JohnF]

Be happy! You have a great camera!It produces amazing images - and always will.

You have not been shafted.

Absolutely...

RED and the RED1 has been one of the best things to happen to this industry for many many years.

I'm still planning a shoot with the RED1 despite today's announcements. Why? Because the camera is still brilliant and can do things almost no other camera on the market today and certainly not at the price.

I'm envious that you're getting your camera tomorrow! Enjoy it!!!

All the best

JohnF

 

[Phil Bates]

Joe, I can understand your frustration, with all that's going on it's an emotional rollercoaster. But still, you end up way ahead with this camera!

It's always about the big picture.



Phil

 

[Clint Johnson]

From the sounds of it, Joe was going to hermetically seal his Red One for a year and then start to try and rent it out for a premium... it doesn't make any sense to me but it is the only scenario where I can see this as bad news.

He certainly isn't planning to shoot anything himself or he would be ecstatic that he is about to take possession of an amazing camera that can take pictures that (I feel) are actually better than s35mm film under most circumstances.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

You may think the RED One obsolete. I don't - it's as good a camera today as it was yesterday. However, you as a RED One purchaser are not obsolete. Jim announced an upgrade policy unheard of in this (or any other industry I can think of).

Everything moves ahead, and this is by far and the best way to move cameras and users forwards - an aggressive schedule, products that suit a wide range of needs, upgradeable brains and a company behind the product that is made up of camera users, camera fans, stills shooters, video shooter, film shooters, who will talk to you and listen to you.

Graeme

 

[number6]

And I'm sure you can return the camera if not satified.

That may be the real test. After receiving the camera and using it for a few days, would he be willing to send it back for his money?

I'm quite satisfied with mine and while I would like to have a more manageable Scarlet for difficult shots (was laying on the roof yesterday looking up trying to locate some Sandhill Cranes I was hearing overhead... the sun was to the South but the southern half of the sky was covered with a wispy haze that functioned like a Neutral Density filter while the northern sky was clear but a very dark blue. The formation of cranes, at about 2,000 feet, came out of the dark blue into the filtered diffused light with wisps of clouds above them. If only I'd had a light-weight Scarlet)... still, I don't think I'm overly eager to get a new Epic.

Maybe when the need for one arises and the finances comply. Nice to know that (presumably) whenever I choose to make that upgrade or if I choose to take the Scarlet discount instead, I can get full price for my R1.

 

[Anthony Gratl]

Hey Buddy! Try wiring all your savings for TWO RED Ones and then eating beans and turning off your water heater and keeping the air-conditioner off all summer in 100 degree heat to keep your electric bill low just so you can complete both transactions. Try buying one tank of gas per month so you can maybe buy a used Nikon mount lens on ebay to stick on the end of your cameras when they arrive. I could go on and on but that would one-upping you to the extreme. So when I give you advice on this, I am speaking from experience. You can still feel bad if you want to, but I choose to be Lou Gherig (without the disease part). That is, today I feel I am the luckiest man on the face of the earth!

Your emotional make-up may vary:tongue:

now THIS is drama....i had no idea you had it in you number6......but i gotta ask...if it's that tight, why TWO redones? doesn't sound like your fiscally prudent republican self....

 

[Andrae Palmer]

The upgrade policy is extremely generous and you guys rocked on that. Some people will just have to deal with the fact that they don't have the latest and greatest. I know a few RED One owners that can't afford the 20k upgrade to an Epic... they are pissed. I personally like all the new updates today. I canceled two more RED one bodies we had an order. We don't have the funds to upgrade three RED Ones to Epic... plus pay for the accessories. We are now looking at upgrading to one Epic and ordering two Scarlet 6k's.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I think this new design concept is truly brilliant (though there are some similarities with the SI-2K approach in terms of the "brain" module...)

I love the options in sensor size, I love the detachable menu control unit, I love the modular approach. Plus it will be easier for RED to update individual pieces of technology rather than a whole camera unit.

As for the RED ONE becoming "obsolete", I think that's nonsense. For one thing, every year a better camera comes along than the previous year, whether you are talking about Sony, Panasonic, RED, etc. so one should expect some heartbreak when one purchases a camera and then sees an even better camera on the market a year or two later. That's just the nature of electronics goods.

Second, people are still shooting mainstream productions on Sony F900's, a nine-year-old-plus technology. As long as a camera delivers good pictures, at the level the market demands, it is always useful for the owner for years and years down the road. Look at how long the basic Sony Betacams were being used, long after Digital Betacam and DV came along. Because the picture quality was fine for the market it was being used in, for two decades.

For most projects, the 4K RAW picture that the RED ONE delivers will be more than enough to satisfy a client, particularly for material destined for HD broadcast.

It's going to be interesting for me, the choice between 5K S35 sensors versus 6K FF35 sensors... is the quality jump from 5K to 6K worth the change from cine optics to still camera optics, plus the difference of two-stops worth of practical depth of field?

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Joe,

i got my camera yesterday - the announcement does not affect anything. R1 is the way to go now and prob. and for the next 2 years realistically speaking.

I have suspicion R1 will be phased out too - that way there´s a scarlet body and epic body - should be a lot cheaper only having 2 assembly lines in the "red factory"...

BUT Jim has promised both a sensor upgrade (that can be purchased) or a 17500 cash rebate on purchase of an epic.

That said, when scarlet comes out- why would you buy a red1 when you can buy a scarlet s35?

 

[Medavoym]

Graeme is right.

HOWEVER - I do see the point of those people who are a bit upset. They bought the RED ONE partly because of the "rendering obsolescence obsolete" phrase. They were the first to believe and have faith in RED, put down deposits, buy cameras, act as beta testers and practically get the company off the ground.

A bit later, people who didn't do anything of the above will be able to buy a better camera for less money. This can certainly make current owners think that RED ONE is obsolete - despite being given the chance to spend $20,000+ more for a shootable EPIC package, on top of the $17,500 credit. Many can't afford that - does that mean that the initial promise doesn't hold true for them? A true "rendering obsolescence obsolete" mantra should mean that RED owners will be given a credit toward ANY of the new products, especially that some are better and cost less money.

But progress can't be stopped. Marketing phrases shouldn't be taken literally. RED ONE creates superb images and those who have it are lucky, and will continue to be lucky for years to come. You can't stop the future and RED made the right choices today.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

That said, when scarlet comes out- why would you buy a red1 when you can buy a scarlet s35?

Exactly... plus people that bought a/multiple RED Ones can they afford to make the jump to another body? Yes the trade-in option is nice and very generous but some people can't afford it (not that I'm saying RED should make it affordable). Perhaps technologically the camera won't be obsolete... but professionally it will be. Who the heck will want to rent one? The industry is very elitist gear wise.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

So instead of getting an Epic, you get your sensor upgrade. I mean, it would be so nice to run a Santa Claus business, giving away presents each year to the good kids, but we all know that's not realistic. Instead, you get to upgrade as best as we can, or trade in as best as we can. Can't say fairer than that.

What about my Canon DSLR - do I get an upgrade sensor? Nope. Do I get money off the next camera or a trade in? Nope. How much money do I have invested in the Canon gear - a more than $17.5k. That's the reality for the rest of the industry.

Graeme

 

[Anthony Gratl]

As for the RED ONE becoming "obsolete", I think that's nonsense. For one thing, every year a better camera comes along than the previous year, whether you are talking about Sony, Panasonic, RED, etc. so one should expect some heartbreak when one purchases a camera and then sees an even better camera on the market a year or two later. That's just the nature of electronics goods.

David, with due respect, the second sentence (correct imo) contradicts the first...

 

[Stefan Scherperel]

Wow this thread really popped out at me. I am also recieving my Red 1 today, infact just got the notice from Fed ex that it has been delivered at the office and I'm on my way out there. But I couldn't be more excited, not only for recieving Red 1 but for the announcement of future sensor upgrades and the possibilites of scarlet. I just can't see how a camera that I have been coveting over for the last couple years has changed one bit with the announcement of possible upgrades. Now the big announcement I'm waiting for is the native adobe support plugin release. That is even more exciting to me right now than even the Scarlet/ Epic announcement.

 

[number6]

now THIS is drama....i had no idea you had it in you number6......but i gotta ask...if it's that tight, why TWO redones? doesn't sound like your fiscally prudent republican self....

Heh, Heh... Please, PLEASE.... INDEPENDENT self... I am anti party whether it be Communist, Democrat, OR Republican.

In answer to your question of why two R1s, it is because I have a plan. One that has Evolve-d :bleh: on a daily basis, but still the basic long-term plan is in place.

To put it into a nutshell, this camera even as originally conceived, convinced me that not only has the technology for shooting changed, but the options for the way we shoot have also changed.

Simply put, with this much resolution you can set up one camera unattended to shoot a scene from a static angle meaning when you get the scene right, you have a synced shot from camera 2 to cut into your footage.

That second camera has no expense other than the cost of it and the power to run it. It is a robot with a one-time cost, and you can look through that high resolution footage and pull out something 2k useable that just might make a so-so scene, perfect.

Plus, when you approach someone about financing or using a location or whatever, nothing says "Production House" like a brace of thoroughbreds.:w00t:

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I hear you Graeme.. but no matter how you try to paint it... the RED One has been made obsolete... perhaps not technologically but definitely professionally. I like the new options and can afford the upgrade but as I said earlier I know a few RED One users that cannot afford it and they are pissed. Albeit they should have seen what was coming and made plans for the change. I say if you own a RED One and can't make the jump to Epic... sell your camera NOW and get an high end Scarlet system.