my personal Nikon lens set - opinions? improvements?

[jaadgy akanni]

Jaadgy, be aware the 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 have no aperture ring AFAIK (those damn G lenses...). That's why Michael (and I, and the Bourne people maybe?) went for the 80-200 AF-D. It's also a lot cheaper. On the downside, if Birger comes out with a killer Nikon solution, maybe we'll be kicking ourselves

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Bruce, the 80-200 AF-D is a great lens, probably the best buy as far as nikkor zooms go; plus it's autofocus is pretty fast. However, I remember thinking "Why Bruce, why!!! when you announced you had just purchased an AF-D version instead of AF-S 'cause you will be kicking yourself when you finally get your hands on the Birger Mount, which will only work with AF-S lenses and I'm sure wil be quite a magnificent tool.
Now, as far as the absence of aperture ring on the FX lenses, no worries- G lenses are your friends if you're gonna be using the Birger mount. The Zeiss ZF's and the manual Nikkors are for the regular Nikon mount made by RED. I'll be getting the RedRock Mattebox and FollowFocus (BTW, although these FF's have no hard stops, Brian Valente says they can be added)
Anyway, it's not too late to sell the AF-D and get your hands on an AFS. I'd recommend anyone to get the 70-200mm f/2.8 for the extra mm's and the VR.

 

[Matthew Hutchens]

Great info Here, I'm in the middle of modding my lenses and this is a huge help.

 

[Finner]

Mr. Morlan

How much did the total nikon prime set cost you?

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

I have a bunch of Nikkors and will be getting the Nikon Mount as well.
I hope the re-designed mount(s) will allow easy swap
of PL and Nikon mounts. I am waiting to see how the Nikons look
before investing in gear rings and other mods.

 

[Bruce Allen]

I remember thinking "Why Bruce, why!!! when you announced you had just purchased an AF-D version instead of AF-S 'cause you will be kicking yourself when you finally get your hands on the Birger Mount, which will only work with AF-S lenses and I'm sure wil be quite a magnificent tool.

Aww, thank you for worrying! The 70-200 is totally out of my budget though... it is around $1500 while I got the 80-200 for around $800. The other lenses were all bought used for $100-$300 each, so the 80-200 was my big luxury splurge!

Bear in mind though that I don't own a Red... this is all hooked up to a $900 HV20 with $1000 35mm adapter most of the time So I couldn't use the Birger if I wanted to. So far, very happy with tack-sharp quality of the lens (admittedly you don't need something THAT good given I'm not exactly shooting at 4K

I'll be getting the RedRock Mattebox and FollowFocus (BTW, although these FF's have no hard stops, Brian Valente says they can be added)

Sounds good - the current rev (rev 3) of the RedRock FollowFocus has significantly less play. It did well when the FreshDV guys reviewed it (for DV mag and also on video on their site) and I trust them to call things the way they see it.

Only prob for me is that most of the people I work with in SA are very much film folks - they give me weird enough looks for my adapter - if I tell them "oh by the way you have to pull focus in reverse" they are likely to throw things at me. So unfortunately that rules out the RedRock since I don't think it can be reversed?

I haven't seen the hard stops added yet - agree it should be easy but I'm looking forward to actually seeing it done by someone first Michael Morlan's JBK Cine solution sounds good too - look forward to seeing what they do...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Tico Llaurador]

Funny, Bruce. I bought a RR FF not long ago because of the good things I read about it. On one good day a few weeks later, while pulling focus ever so gently, the knob broke clean at the shaft! A closer look at it revealed a thin shaft made of some porous metal alloy. It was bound to break sooner or later. Not good in my book.

Imagine if your clients saw that happen (while you pulled focus in reverse)!

So, the lesson? The same lesson I shamefully keep learning over and over again the hard way: "You get what you pay for!"

I'm now in on Jay's Arri FF group purchase.

 

[Bruce Allen]

I'm now in on Jay's Arri FF group purchase.

Wasn't that for the FF4? I know you can reverse the LFF-1 but haven't heard about being able to do that with the FF4... guess I need to visit a rental house and test them out on my Nikons.

Agreed Arri is definitely great. My friends (some of whom can't afford a car, let alone a Red) still usually rent the Arri FFs because they're worth it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Tico Llaurador]

Bruce, I'm aiming to get the LFF-1. Not necessarily because it's reversible, for use with my Nikon glass, but because it's lighter. From what I hear from the other guys, with the RED One every ounce counts.

 

[Michael Morlan]

80-200mm AF-D vs 70-20mm AF-S

I'm shooting a feature starting tomorrow (with the Brevis) and needed lens that works now. If and when the Birger mount is made for Nikon's I'll definitely consider upgrading to the AF-S. Until then, gotta have that iris ring. And, the hard stop on the focus ring is mighty nice in a contemporary lens.

Gear Rings

Why, in all the threads that I've started and read hasn't anyone made note of these SGPro gear rings? I'd consider them if I hadn't already ordered the gears from Jerry at JBKCine. Although, I passed on the Cinevate gear ring because the securing posts look like they would scare the knurled rubber ring of the lens.

In another thread, I noted the need for professional appearing as well as performing gear rings. The Red Rock rings are all fine and good but they look like *&s with the large bolt sticking out the side. When a production can't afford a set of cine primes, having a pro-appearing/performing lens set makes producers more comfortable.

Also, any non-360 ring has to be repositioned when the FF is swapped from side to side. 1st a.c.'s just love that.

So:

Red Rock Micro:
+ large ring increases FF knob turns, easily installed (I'd keep some of these in my kit for lenses that I borrowed/rented from other sources for a shoot.)
- ugly securing bolt that must be rotated to avoid the FF, plastic

Cinevate:
+ large ring, 360deg, metal
- securing bolts can scar lens

SGPro Type 1:
+ large ring, large pads on securing bolts protect lens finish, metal
- 330deg, hard to install

SGPro Type 2:
+ 360deg, metal
- securing bolts can scar lens

JBKCine custom gears:
+ 360deg, aluminum, shim can be added to protect lens from bolts, available in anodized RED :sarcasm:
- smaller diameter results in shorter FF knob pulls, custom order

Follow Focus

Still undecided here but the Red Rock is falling out of favor with me after reading the shaft breaking story and experiencing a gear fail on my set. (The plastic gear is affixed to the drive shaft with an allen screw that eventually tears up the plastic gear itself)

I'm using the director's CAVision RFF-15B on this feature. It has a solid feel. The gear can be flipped although it requires a screwdriver.

Michael

 

[Bruce Allen]

EDIT: a parallel conversation on follow focus units is happening on DVXuser:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=111203

EDIT: and there was a discussion about the Cavision FF here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13602

Imagine if your clients saw that happen (while you pulled focus in reverse)!

Bwahaha...

I'm shooting a feature starting tomorrow (with the Brevis) and needed lens that works now.

Good luck with the feature!

Why, in all the threads that I've started and read hasn't anyone made note of these SGPro gear rings?

Michael, the SGpro rings are pretty new and I think the first (sold out) batch of their FF is only shipping now?

Anyway, there's a lot of great info in your post, thank you! I'll have to check out that Cavision... for $1050 it seems good. So, not too much play? Looks like they're coming out with an improved one too:
http://www.cavision.com/followfocus/singlewheelnew.htm
for reference, here's the old one:
http://www.cavision.com/followfocus/singlewheel.htm
and the dual wheel version:
http://www.cavision.com/followfocus/dualwheel.htm

Now, since the Willytech is too expensive, for me it's between that (if it gets good reviews), the SGpro (if it gets good reviews) and the LFF-1 (agree with you Tico...).

Pity the DV Mag article didn't test the Cavision or Arri... here's their article:
http://www.dv.com/reviews/reviews_item.php?articleId=196603447

...and the FreshDV.com video reviews:
http://www.freshdv.com/2007/10/freshdv-reviews-five-follow-focus-systems.html

BTW Michael, I have exactly the same lens set as you, minus the 17-35... only additions are a two crazy Pentacon 6 MF lenses with Nikon adapters and the Peleng 8mm.

I wish I had:
- The Nikon or Tamron 14mm 2.8
- the ultra-expensive 28mm 1.4 (haha, of course)
- a couple of macro lenses, extension tubes, etc (wish I could have close-focus options)
- more far-out lenses

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Tico Llaurador]

Peleng 8mm????

Peleng 8mm????

Bruce, do you really own that piece? I've always been intrigued by that lens. How is it? I was just going to buy a sample to test (and keep, if good) just for the hell of it. I'm not into extreme precision optics like other filmmakers out there (read: 4K motion lomography would be fine with me, if you know what I mean), but then again I'm picky on certain visual characteristics of optics. I give optics pass or fail grade, no matter the heritage.

What's your take on it? Obviously, you like to explore all alternatives. So do I.

Care to share, though slightly off-topic? PM me if you'd rather reply off-forum.

Thanks!

 

[Bruce Allen]

Hopefully this isn't too OT (the thread's about Nikon lens selections after all...)

Tico, the Peleng is great (for what it is). Definitely a good music video lens Bear in mind that you can get it in PL mount pretty easily too.

The master of the Peleng is of course Matt Uhry, who shot a sweet Honda Insight spot with it. He posted some frames from the PL mount Peleng attached to the Red at the RPM lens tests too.

Obvious advantage is:
- PRICE!
- doesn't suck (not spectacular, but DEFINITELY DOESN'T SUCK)
- nice focus range (not too useful though since the thing's 8mm
- smaller, lighter than the Nikon 8mm 2.8

Obvious disadvantages are:
- f3.5, not f2.8 (like the Nikon)
- slightly worse sharpness, more CA and more vignette than the Nikon, esp at f3.5
- more flare than the Nikon

Here's a couple reviews:
http://www.pauck.de/marco/photo/stuff/peleng_fisheye/peleng_fisheye.html
http://www.muellerworld.com/peleng/
http://home.comcast.net/~dougsmit/fisheye.html

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Tico Llaurador]

Excellent...

Excellent...

...wow, Bruce, you're pretty thorough in your answers and I do appreciate that. I'll check out Matt's samples and read on his experience with it, as you suggest.

Many, many thanks!

 

[Mark Mannschreck]

I would avoid the RR follow focus for use with PL lenses. It was designed for use with still lenses. The position and size of the gear box gets in the way. For example, I was only able to use it with a couple of lenses from an Arri Zeiss HS Prime set - on some lenses the gear box hits the lens before the gear can engage. It works with the 18-50mm Red zoom but I had to remove one of the PL "claws" as you can see in the photo.

 

[Brian Valente]

Funny, Bruce. I bought a RR FF not long ago because of the good things I read about it. On one good day a few weeks later, while pulling focus ever so gently, the knob broke clean at the shaft! A closer look at it revealed a thin shaft made of some porous metal alloy. It was bound to break sooner or later. Not good in my book.

Imagine if your clients saw that happen (while you pulled focus in reverse)!

So, the lesson? The same lesson I shamefully keep learning over and over again the hard way: "You get what you pay for!"

I'm now in on Jay's Arri FF group purchase.

Tico

We have become aware there was a small batch of our microFollowFocus parts that were sent to us built with the wrong materials. Please contact me and we can replace it for you with the correct part. I agree that kind of stuff just doesn't hold water on the set, and we don't expect anyone to accept that kind of performance.

If anyone else has run into that problem, same holds.

Thanks


Brian

 

[Brian Valente]

I would avoid the RR follow focus for use with PL lenses. It was designed for use with still lenses. The position and size of the gear box gets in the way. For example, I was only able to use it with a couple of lenses from an Arri Zeiss HS Prime set - on some lenses the gear box hits the lens before the gear can engage. It works with the 18-50mm Red zoom but I had to remove one of the PL "claws" as you can see in the photo.

Manny - I just used it on the 18-50 and 300mm Red lenses with out any need to remove a claw. It worked great for both lenses.

It's definitely a snug fit, and we are developing a larger drive gear that will give it much more breathing room (for lack of a better term). It will be available for existing microFF units. I don't have a firm date on this yet, but it's in the production queue.


Brian

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks Brian.

You "RED ROCK" again.

 

[Mark Mannschreck]

Manny - I just used it on the 18-50 and 300mm Red lenses with out any need to remove a claw. It worked great for both lenses.

It's definitely a snug fit, and we are developing a larger drive gear that will give it much more breathing room (for lack of a better term). It will be available for existing microFF units. I don't have a firm date on this yet, but it's in the production queue.


Brian

Hey Brian, I am using it on a different Red at the moment and didn't have to remove the claw... I guess it depends on where the claw falls at locked position which isn't the same on different cameras. I haven't seen the new PL mount, but maybe it won't be an issue anymore with the 18-50.

I also grinded the back of the RR rod support in order to be able to set the RR follow focus back further on the rods to engage the zoom gear!

 

[Brian Valente]

Hi Manny - thanks for the update. That makes sense

If you could send me a pic of your mod that would be great. Always interested.

Thanks

Brian

 

[Tico Llaurador]

Thanks for the offer, Brian...

Thanks for the offer, Brian...

...much appreciated. Unfortunately, since that happened, I parted the failed FF unit and now most of its parts have been "re-purposed" and placed to good use elsewhere. The FF to rods base now holds a Noga arm and 9" LCD. The focusing knob was given away and the few remaining unused parts went straight into the toolbox, just in case. Nothing ever goes to waste around here, no matter what.

If you want me to send you the failed gearbox itself, just PM me the return info and I'll be happy to send it your way. I think it may still be in there as well, along with the serial number plate, if that helps you identify the bad batch.

Again, thank you.