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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

my lens decision..

Zakaree Sandberg

Zakaree Sandberg

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I have been using my zeiss zf lenses (cinevised by duclos)
since 2008, when i got my camera...

I have the 28 35 50 85 set..
I paid 2800 bucks for the set (got a deal)

for a while ive been over those lenses for a variety of reasons...

first being they are not PL mount which is standard..

second I like zoom lenses ALOT, and I would have no problem living on a zoom if I didnt operate handheld a lot of the times..and obviously in low light situations I need that wide open 1.4 - 2 range that zooms cant give me...
but more importantly.. the zooms i want are PL.. and a lens mount switch wont cut it..

3rd... the ZFs have a "LOOK" to them which I personally dont know if I like or not... its a more crispy superspeed look.. if that makes sense...
the speeds still have that organic feel to them.. where as these are just balls sharp and consumer looking..
(although with good post correction.. they can shine)

so anyways..

After unloading 6k for my new sensor... the 5k im about to unload in a week for the epic res.. and then the remaining 15k in a couple months for the epic..

ive decided my dreams of rehoused panchros.. or standards are on hold...

obviously lenses are a better investment than a camera.. but I have a feeling more people will be wanting the camera than just a set of lenses.. I can always subrent glass from my friends here on reduser ;-)


so heres the question portion of my thread...

who has the 18mm ZF or 21MM?
3.5 is pretty gnarly for my widest aperture in the 18
21 might not be wide enough.. and 2.8 isnt all that great either...

so Im either looking to pull the trigger on the 18 and just deal with that thick wide open spot
or... if you guys know of a better wide lens that will match my zfs pretty good...
I can deal with 2.8 on a 18..

Right now I have a 17-35 zoom tameron lens...

which honestly doesnt "LOOK" bad.. it just feels like a McDonalds happy meal toy



also..
Does anyone know of a zoom which holds its focus through the range in nikon mounts?

I would love to have a shorty wide zoom
(manual focus a must)
as well as a long lens 80-200?
 
my list

my list

For zooms you can't do better than the Nikon trio 14-24, 24-70, 70-200
The image quality is absolutely stellar- consistent f2.8 stops, etc.
For primes I like sigmas 20 f1.8, 24f1.8, 30 f1.4, 50f1.4. I like the 30 a lot and bought one- now looking into the 20 and the 24- for my betacam(I'll spare you the labor of converting moderators)
 
I just wish more lenses were built like the zf's...

ZF's are the most cine like feeling lenses out there..
they are strong and durable.. No issues with focusing..
where as the cheap plastic lens housings (with a cine gear on them)
still move around, or feel like I could break them if I accidentally pull focus too hard.

Jacek, Your mount is great.. its holds the lenses in place.. the lens mounts wont move one bit.. but like I said.. these plastic lenses will just fall apart I feel...:(
 
(machined) metal barrelled lenses

(machined) metal barrelled lenses

There are Zak:
Leicas, Cosinas, Hasselblatts, many others. Currently in production.
Just look around. You get what you pay for however. The traditional technology as nice as it is is way too expensive because it does not offer "economy of scales" advantage- at least not as much as the newer production technology.
The boutique style operations of Leicas and the likes will, if not already have fade into obscurity of snobbish rich collector items and will eventually disappear because there will be no market driven demand. The collectors welcome this because it will increase the collector value of these obsolete gems.
rant over!!!
 
17-35 f2.8 Nikkor is a mainstay for a reason. Have Duclos lock the focus, declick the iris and gear it for you. You won't regret it. However I do find 20/21mm to be my favorite wide FL in a prime. I like the lower distortion compared to 16/18mm.

If I were you, I'd probably get the 21mm ZF and a Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 in Nikon and have them both geared by Duclos. That would solve both problems :)
 
Hi Zak,

That is in fact a really useful post for me, kind of cautionary, as this year I am going to make some lens purchases and was at least considering the compact primes or the ZFs. I dont want overly sharp lenses either - they would be drive me mad and I would regret buying them. I will definitely be trying them out before buying anything. The new Schneider Cine Xenars sound promising with a reputedly more organic look but they are very heavy given that the Epic X body weighs so little.
 
In a perfect world primes on dollies, cranes, Steadi, etc are great. In the real world zooms can be a serious asset in a lot of situations. The RED 18-85 is the best bang for the buck I have seen but its large-ish for hand held. The Angie DP series zooms are awesome, lightweight, cine quality (drool rolling down); but they're $20K and the zoom ranges are 16-42 and 30-80 so you would probably want both which is $40K - too rich for most owner/ops.

Open note to lens manufacturers (starting with RED since they seem to understand the economies of scale):

Please build us an all purpose Zoom: PL mount, S35 coverage, electronic FIZ control built in, 15-150mm range, as fast as possible without breaking the 9 pound (4 kg) barrier, under $12K so it makes sense for owner/ops.

Cheers - #19
 
17-35mm Nikon if you need iris control on the lens, 11-16mm Tokina and 14-24mm Nikon if you have an Optitek Nikon mount for your Red. I do, and have all three. Very nice glass for the money.
 
they are out there

they are out there

Blair S. Paulsen said:
In a perfect world primes on dollies, cranes, Steadi, etc are great. In the real world zooms can be a serious asset in a lot of situations. The RED 18-85 is the best bang for the buck I have seen but its large-ish for hand held. The Angie DP series zooms are awesome, lightweight, cine quality (drool rolling down); but they're $20K and the zoom ranges are 16-42 and 30-80 so you would probably want both which is $40K - too rich for most owner/ops.

Open note to lens manufacturers (starting with RED since they seem to understand the economies of scale):

Please build us an all purpose Zoom: PL mount, S35 coverage, electronic FIZ control built in, 15-150mm range, as fast as possible without breaking the 9 pound (4 kg) barrier, under $12K so it makes sense for owner/ops.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...
There are bunch of 18-200 out there-cheap. Decent quality, very low price- what's holding you? You can do what you want today, at your budget. Obviously they have limitations and such and you won't look the part, but hey-they seem to be good enough for 15+Mpix stills...
Sorry Blair- couldn't resist it...:devil:
 
Well hopefully the RED 17-50 will be at least a bit of game changer...got one on its way so it better be...ha
 
Rob Castiglione said:
Hi Zak,

That is in fact a really useful post for me, kind of cautionary, as this year I am going to make some lens purchases and was at least considering the compact primes or the ZFs. I dont want overly sharp lenses either - they would be drive me mad and I would regret buying them. I will definitely be trying them out before buying anything. The new Schneider Cine Xenars sound promising with a reputedly more organic look but they are very heavy given that the Epic X body weighs so little.
Click to expand...

well.. couple things..

the new zeiss CP lenses.. are fine and dandy.. same glass as the ZF's
(you wont notice a single difference wether you have a ZF in nikon mount or a CP in pl mount..
the differences would be barrel and mechanics.. Not exactly worth the extra coin for me...

As of now.. i have no mechanical issues with my ZF's.. focus throw is decent.. if I want more of a throw I can always buy the mff-1 follow focus and set it to have a long distance turn.

so immediately.. the CP's in my book are out.. that pl mount is really not worth the 3.5k per lens.

the other new glass your talking about are also $$$..

so in my little world.. im good with the zf's.. Ill sub rent for the times when i need other glass..

looking into 14-24 to take care of my wide end/zoom needs
70-200 is next up
 
OptiTek said:
There are bunch of 18-200 out there-cheap. Decent quality, very low price- what's holding you? You can do what you want today, at your budget. Obviously they have limitations and such and you won't look the part, but hey-they seem to be good enough for 15+Mpix stills...
Sorry Blair- couldn't resist it...:devil:
Click to expand...

Tried it, even with brand new ones the zoom movement was so stiff a Microforce with Heden motor could not move it properly (chattered and walked off the gear). Not surprising since the term zoom on a stills lens is actually misleading - they are variable focal length lenses, not zooms - people just call them that out of habit.

Modded stills lenses can be an excellent alternative to the stratospheric price points of PL mount Cine style lenses, but the devil is often in the details. What I am looking for in a PL zoom lens is operational characteristics more similar to professional B4 mount video lenses.

Nice try :nono: hehe

Cheers - #19
 
I like the Zeiss ZF's you are using.

I agree with your opinion of their look and deficiencies. For the record I'll take the crispiness and soften in post.

You definitely want to look at a good FF as you go to the wider lenses, especially the SLR zooms.

There are NO good zooms in the SLR price range. They are all varifocal designs ( I think) and don't hold focus through the zoom range. This is not an issue for their intended use- thanks to SLR autofocus.

I can only recommend them for use as variable primes, and as that they have shortcomings.

I use a 17-35 Nikon to complement a set of Zeiss ZFs (35, 50 & 85)

I freaking HATE the Nikon. Focus throws inside a mm? Seriously? Even a top notch remote FF has trouble getting a good follow. Not to mention that it looks soft compared to the Zeiss and it has a very different color cast, one I find unappealing. I can of course fix that in a RED workflow... but that means it costs me time and money.

I'd much prefer to have a full set of Zeiss ZF's. I'm often lighting to f/4 anyway, so having the slower lenses is not a huge deal.

You could consider the Compact Prime CP.2 with a Nikon mount on the wide end. It will match the Zeiss ZF very nicely and have some speed to offer. (t/2.1 I think even for the 18mm)

I've seriously considered both shifting to PL mount and biting the pricing bullet. I'd probably do the RED 17-50, Duclos Tokina 11-16 PL conversion, and compact primes. I am hoping for a Macro 50mm and a Macro 100mm, plus the existing CP.2 85mm. I'd be also very tempted by the RED primes

Another lens I find attractive is the Zeiss LWZ.2 Basically its the same LWZ 15.5-45 t/2.6 we all know and love, but with a mount like the CP.2 lenses that can switch between Canon, Nikon and PL mounts. Its priced about the same as the LWZ or wide Angeniuex zooms. ($27000 MSRP I think, I have not seen a street price.)

I think the LWZ.2 is almost ideal for owner operators on paper. What ever you are shooting, it works with that using a manufacturers mount- not a conversion or an adapter. Its a cine lens inside and out. Its great to mix with Zeiss ZF or ZE lenses on a RED or DSLR... and then you can shift to PL mount so you can use it with rentals, or when you buy into PL lenses. It seems like a good investment.

Alternatively I've considered shifting to a Canon mount on the RED, and using a Tokina 11-16, Canon 16-35, and a full set of Zeiss ZE lenses.

As a variant of that last option, I've considered getting the Compact Prime CP.2 instead of the Zeiss ZEs and using them as Canon mount. For me that has the advantage of letting me use the same lenses natively on my RED and my Canon DSLR. (Which I love-hate.)

Overall, if the budget is present I'd much prefer the PL mount route. It gives me much more flexibility to rent lenses as needed to mix and match with what I own during a shoot.

As a final thought... I probably wouldn't make any lens changes right now until you have your EPIC in hand and have a feel for how it works with your existing lenses.
 
alexander..the cp2's are the same aperture as the ZF's

so your paying for the new housing.. and the mounts..

im ok with taping my zf's and staying on a nikon mount (i have the opitek, which is great)
 
Zakaree, if your looking for a cheap wide Nikon mount lens go with the Sigma 20mm f1.8. The lens is cheap and some really cool flare on it. Plus its super sharp...not sure if that's your thing after reading the beginning of the thread. I've used the lens on the RED MX and on my 5D2 for timelapse and it does a great job. Plus it way faster than the 18mm ZF.

I'm planning on going Canon mount on my Epic and getting adaptor rings for all my Zeiss ZFs. The main reason for this is so that I can use the "L" Canon primes on Epic. The 24mm f1.4L mk2 I have is awesome and is my main timelapse lens.
 
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