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My first set if primes. Would these be a good buy?

Jon Nash

Jon Nash

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Im looking to ugrade from nikons to my first set of primes.
Ive seen a set of Zeiss super speeds. And Im wondering if this could be a good first purchase? My Max budget at this stage would be $20K.

Listing reads - This is a four prime set of Zeiss Super Speed 16mm/RED 2k lenses. The set includes 9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm and 25mm lenses. They are all T1.2 Mk1 with 80mm fronts, focus gears and PL mounts in really great condition aesthetically and mechanically, and have just been checked and serviced by renowned european lens center Etkon.

The Super Speeds produce a beautiful sharp image and are especially perfect for variable speed shooting on the RED camera (which is covered perfectly at 2k)or any 16mm camera... small, light and super sharp with a nice warm image.)http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeiss-Super-Spe...IC&otn=20&po=&ps=63&clkid=8649342252561662608
 
Those are nice lenses, but only for 16mm - which means you can only shoot in 2k, and thus throw away 75% of your pixels.

If you have 20k, why not go for the RED pro prime set?

Depending on your type of work, you might also consider the RED zooms, both of them cover 18-150mm and are under 20k.
 
Martin Weiss said:
Those are nice lenses, but only for 16mm - which means you can only shoot in 2k, and thus throw away 75% of your pixels.

If you have 20k, why not go for the RED pro prime set?

Depending on your type of work, you might also consider the RED zooms, both of them cover 18-150mm and are under 20k.
Click to expand...

Iv'e yet to see the Red prime's in the flesh or the results from them . I was put off by one comment from someone who had used them who said they were of an inferior quality. However that was only one persons opinion and Im keen to find out from others if they are a good purchase.
 
Jon Nash said:
Iv'e yet to see the Red prime's in the flesh or the results from them . I was put off by one comment from someone who had used them who said they were of an inferior quality. However that was only one persons opinion and Im keen to find out from others if they are a good purchase.
Click to expand...

If you have 20k and you don't get the RED primes, then you are a fool. Optically amazing. Mechanically top notch. The only problem is they are modern cine glass and weigh more than standard or super speeds.

I just talked to someone who said, "you got those crappy lenses" when I mentioned that I had the RPP's. After talking with him, it sounds like many people are giving the RPP's a bad name because of the old RED 18-50 zoom All I can figure for bad mouthing the RPP's is that they don't realize they are using primes, or because of the bad rep the 18-50 has, they just think the RPP's will be the same.

Let's just say that my rental clients have been super happy with the RPP's and I haven't had to get any other primes in for them.

Matthew
 
The RED PRO PRIMES are excellent.

For the price, they are incredible.

The two first red zooms (18-50 & 50-150) has a lot going against them. Resolution is not one of those things. And they're super light for handheld/solo work.

The badness of those lenses is overstated immensly. But they are def not comparable to much more expensive zooms. They are a great way to get hirez images cheaply on your RED without adding a ton of weight.

Have a look at this, shot with the 18-50:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41565&highlight=myth+busted

If you think this is ok for you, you probably can live with the 18-50...

Superspeeds covering S35 is a great option, but you won't have a set for 20k$ these days. Buying 16mm glass over s35mm would be a very poor choice, and one you will regret immensely.

I have heard a lot of DOPs that have only tried the two first zooms, making judgements on the RPPs on basis of those.

Simple idea:
Don't do that... -:)

Cheers!
 
Jon Nash said:
Iv'e yet to see the Red prime's in the flesh or the results from them . I was put off by one comment from someone who had used them who said they were of an inferior quality.
Click to expand...
Based on one comment you would buy lenses that only cover 2K? Film is dead, 2k is dead!
 
Morning Jon,

A couple of other options.... On ebay right now is an Angenieux 17-102 T2.9 for 14k This would cover the majority of 2-4k rez jobs. There is also an Angenieux 16-44 1.1 that will probally go for around 2k. That lens or one of the 9.5-57mm T1.9 (try to find one of the later ones with the spiffy multi coating) would cover a lot of range for 2k rez shoots. Of course you could use the big Angy for lower rez work also. This would leave you with some change left over for a used follow focus and mayby a matte box too.
 
OK, here's a shameless self-promotion... I still have my Cooke 18-100 T3 zoom for sale. It's a beautiful lens.

Other than that, I also recommend the RPPs. I've had my set since last summer and they are excellent, both optically and mechanically. They are big and heavy. I have met with some resistance from clients about using them, but most have trusted me enough to let me proceed and they have loved the results. I really don't understand the bad reputation that precedes these lenses, or any of the RED lenses, including the 18-50. The 18-50 did have compromises and inconsistent build quality. Optically, it was always a good lens other than the excessive breathing. This bad reputation for the RPP's seems to fall right in line with the question of "who makes them" that pops up every so often on here. There is this industry-wide perception that if it's not Zeiss or Cooke, it can't be usable cinema glass.

I have a big client that would only shoot, or allow those he hired to shoot, with Ultra or Master Primes. When I got my RPP's, I got him to agree to me using them by offering to shoot with them first and if he didn't like it, we would re-shoot with Ultras at my expense. He now loves RPPs and has used them on a few jobs. Also, like me, he prefers them to the Ultra Primes.

Super Speeds and older Zeiss "standards" have a different look. Personally I don't like the look of the old speeds on the RED or other digital systems. Sure, they are fast, but they just don't have the quality or sharpness when wide open.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
... Also, like me, he prefers them to the Ultra Primes...
Click to expand...

hmm..curious why..what's wrong w/ Ultra Primes ?

Red primes are one of biggest bargain of any product in the industry.
Just look at few are resold. People keep them them...
 
Jon Nash said:
Im looking to ugrade from nikons to my first set of primes.
Ive seen a set of Zeiss super speeds. And Im wondering if this could be a good first purchase? My Max budget at this stage would be $20K.

Listing reads - This is a four prime set of Zeiss Super Speed 16mm/RED 2k lenses. The set includes 9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm and 25mm lenses. They are all T1.2 Mk1 with 80mm fronts, focus gears and PL mounts in really great condition aesthetically and mechanically, and have just been checked and serviced by renowned european lens center Etkon.

The Super Speeds produce a beautiful sharp image and are especially perfect for variable speed shooting on the RED camera (which is covered perfectly at 2k)or any 16mm camera... small, light and super sharp with a nice warm image.)http://cgi.ebay.com/Zeiss-Super-Spe...IC&otn=20&po=&ps=63&clkid=8649342252561662608
Click to expand...

Jon,
The mki set with 80mm front Pl mount ans focus gears they are worth depending on the condition any where from $6,000.00 to $ 9,000.00. Be careful because these lenses have very thin walls and and can get image shift. However the mkii andf the mkiii are much better. cost for a set of four is anywhere from $12,000.00 to $18,000.00. the mki mkii and mkiii are all optically the same.
hapo this helps
Stuart
 
Steve Das said:
hmm..curious why..what's wrong w/ Ultra Primes ?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with the Ultra Primes. I hope I didn't imply that in any way. But when I say I prefer the RED Primes, I do. To me, they produce a more contrasty image and have better edge to edge sharpness and consistency than the Ultras. I also prefer the look they create. To me, the Ultras have a very sterile look to their image. Almost clinically clean to put it in a different context.

Red primes are one of biggest bargain of any product in the industry.
Just look at few are resold. People keep them them...
Click to expand...

They are indeed a bargain. I'm very happy with mine.
 
There's also the option of the Zeiss Compact Primes. These are excellent glass that weigh a lot less than all the other options, plus they are the only PL prime set that cover Full Frame 35, making them future proof. The new Mark-2 versions are coming in a month and will be available in sets for less than the RED Pro Primes. If you're in Vegas for NAB or the REDuser party, come check them out at the Abel booth.

And there's also the Schneider primes. They are quite lovely, with perhaps the best bokeh I've ever seen. They'll be at NAB as well.
 
If you have a $20k budget for primes... I would definitely buy the RPPs. $19k for the 25/35/50/85/100mm, $22.8K adding the 18mm. I´ve got two sets of them. I also suggest that you see and try them.
Guido
 
Jon,

I'm not sure who told you the RPP are inferior... I would like to know.
Optically, the RED Pro Primes blow the early Zeiss Super Speeds away.
Not only would you be getting a MUCH larger usable image, but a much sharper, wore evenly exposed image.
Whoever told you the RPPs are no good, doesn't know what they are talking about or has no experience. You would be getting closer in comparison if these were a set of MkIII 35 format Super Speeds, but then you're looking at a price range from about $40k to $50k and STILL not as good as the RPP.
Don't overlook the RED Primes. RED may have had a rough time with their early zooms, but they learned darn quick, and learned well.
 
Long term plan

Long term plan

The one thing still up in the air is how they'll hold up- this is especially important if you plan to rent them out- rentals are really hard on gear- so durability for a long period of time is very important. an overhaul on these lenses would probably cost as much as the lenses themselves...
 
OptiTek said:
The one thing still up in the air is how they'll hold up- this is especially important if you plan to rent them out- rentals are really hard on gear- so durability for a long period of time is very important. an overhaul on these lenses would probably cost as much as the lenses themselves...
Click to expand...

Morning Jacek,

Have you had any of the RED primes apart? Are there multi floating elements and such? I ask because of your statement that an overhaul could cost as much as the lens itself.
 
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