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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

My Big Idea: the Bottle Rocket

Ron Amborn said:
All
We are finally ready to announce that our Mobile Rocket Raid will in fact be Thunder Bolt ready by NAB 2012. We will be taking orders at NAB and we are also proud to announce that all existing Mobile Rocket Raids will be upgradeable in the interest of keeping happy REDUSERS. We will still offer our PCI Express version as many REDUSER still have a need for this technology. For info please contact info@maxxdigital.com or call us at 714-374-4944. Thank you to all of our REDUSER customers and see you at NAB booth #SL13105.

Sincerely,
Ron Amborn
Maxx Entertainment Digital
21562 Newland Street
Huntington Beach , Ca 92646
Direct 714-374-4944
Cell 714-713-4492 Fax 714-374-3404

ron@maxxdigital.com

www.maxxdigital.com

www.reducation.net/community_day.html

www.red.com/gear_we_use
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What about the Mobile Rocket (not RAID)? :smile:
 
Sid Idris said:
A million? Really? 20,000 maybe.
Click to expand...

I doubt they've broke 2000 yet, and it will never break a million. It's not a $800 DSLR that everyone and their mom are going to go to best buy and pick up. It's a high end cinematography tool that cost as much as a car. While there may be millions who want it, that the price point there are only going to be thousands that are going to be able to afford it and need it. I'm not saying anything bad about RED or Scarlet. If what I'm saying is the case than I'm sure it's what RED expects. It will eventually completely outsell Epic and Red One, but I think the quantities that have been sold so far are grossly blown out of proportion in most REDuser's minds. That's just my logic, not trying to argue with anyone, but that's what makes sense to me given the info I've gathered over the past few months in the Scarlet forum.
 
It's not about camera owners only.

Run a bit of math.

Lets say there are 10,000 reds producing footage at a conservative average of 50 shoot days per year.

Thats 500,000 shoot days per year.

That footage goes out to thousands of post houses, individuals etc. that means the demand for acceleration of r3d media far exceeds the number of owners.

The real smart plan to cement red into the future is to make the complete system (including post) much more accessible.

A less expensive self contained rocket solution is what I think will halt all transcoding arguments.

I hope someone at RED are hearing this or at least considering it.

David
 
yep agree we need this, in my hotel room now with the 2011 17" macbookpro and getting poor playback in rcx on 1/4, but really just want to nicely watch my images i shot today, i want a thunderbolt rocket :)
 
David Battistella said:
This is my own initiative and is not endorsed by RED

So,

People want a camera module that records 1080P DNX HD or prores. It think this might be a better solution.

I say give CLIENTS every camera and codec solution in one package.

---A nice little thunderbolt Redrocket enclosure that will solve problems and answer producer questions like--

Q "i need pro res"
A "Bottle Rocket

Q "i need AVID DNX HD"
A "Bottle Rocket

Q "i need DPX"
A "Bottle Rocket

Q "i need SD, WEB SIZE, 4K, 2K"
A "Bottle Rocket

Q "I want ALEXA"
A "Bottle Rocket will make the same files.

THE BOTTLE ROCKET

A compact $1500 thunderbolt RED ROCKET solution at a price even the most miserly REDuser can afford.

The goal.

SHOOT RAW
BACKUP MEDIA
Transcode to what ever your client wants with BOTTLE ROCKET SPEED.

No more whining.

bottlerocket copy.jpg
Click to expand...

Why do we need a rocket, why not a modern General Purpose computing GPU? I can give them the answers, but that is my own work. You know that cineform was doing good wavelet raw compression years before Red came out, they were first that I heard of too invent it, I was there when they had. GPGPU can replace the modern cpu, if they know how to ride it, but there are better ways (but still including a gpgpu like functiinality).
 
Thanks Wayne.

Doesnt REDCODE really need CPU horsepower to decompress the wavelet based Jpeg compression in the the file.

There is the debayer but also the decompression. If they can playback 1080p from the 9K$ camera CPU (scarlet) couldn't there be a much less expensive 4k card.

Maybe BMD or Aja could make it.

I just want to see this "hard to post RED" BS over with.

Not for me, but for the format in general.


David
 
In the industry things are often missed because of too narrow a focus. It might seem to them that using general processing GPU's are not suitable, but GPU's general purpose processing ability is advancing, and it is a matter of how you process that effects it's suitability for GPU's, even if they have to change red code and wavelets. I am associated with a community that often used to redefine processing to speed it dramatically up, and also did my own waveformation technique. Wavelets however, are not my thing.
 
Well, I am buying a modest quad core i7 (not 12 core+) and GPGPU graphics card hopefully, and hopefully that will be sufficient for the next 5 years. The next Macmini, might even be upto it. But I hope that this red post issue is sorted by then. Red Rocket was only a short term fix until gpu processing matured. I might have been the one that suggested the Red Rocket's processing chip to Jim originally (I came over from a previouse DIY digital cinema camera group that Jim followed around 2004).

I also have been thinking of posting a thread somewhere, on what is the minimum needed to make a good film, and it will be shocking how little camera wise, is needed.
 
just $ 0.02

well.. having it look obsolete in 2 yrs might be a bit crude.. sure maybe in two years we'll have full decode on GPU; but you forget that at that point you'll still be putting a heavy lock onto system resources. having the thunderboilt debayer/wavelet device will keep your GPU free to do more suited tasks like encoding into proxies; first colors and if used in editing all the other stuff the GPU is already handling atm. been some years into editing but i've never heard an editor/compositor or anyone complaining about having to much raw power in a system [except for those moments that you're having a coffee break during renders] (-;

I think a lot of people/bosses would like something that saves them an hour of rendering time per day.. 300 hours a year would earn that back even if you only ask $10/hour. other thunderbolt devices might add just a couple of hundred CUDA-cores, just a couple of DSP-farms for audio. that is slowly starting to happen.
___
quote:
Going back to my point above, I'm not sure if it's really what people ultimately want. No one is going to give a crap about getting footage converted to ProRes and DNxHD or whatever once they can seamlessly play and edit R3D files just as easily. I prefer RED continue focusing their efforts on the software tools and SDK. If they want to invest in more resources and people, then put them on those tasks. The latest crop of GPUs coming up in the near future have vastly improved compute engines and should be much better suited for wavelet decoding -- the computationally-expensive portion of R3D decode. I would rather see efforts concentrated there. IMO, if software can evolve to match current and upcoming (known) hardware, then such a Rocket product would (should) be obsolete within a year or two.
 
File formats are just relative when dealing with raw. If you combine the idea of having a RED-MAG reader with a Rocket and thunderbolt bus then you get some interesting possibilities...

When mounting a RED mag to your RED reader/rocket combo you could make the download and convert process the same operation. Just make the hardware in the reader/rocket display the raw files in "virtual folder" on the red mag and then you just "download" the files you like. When the transfer operation begins the hardware transcode raw to whatever need. Prores, Dnxhd, h264, etc.
 
That is a cool idea.

It sort of gets rid of a step.

I guess the idea is to have the same horsepower in a small enclosure that can travel from machine to machine, platform to platform and fit the wide ranging size of productions that currently use EPIC or Scarlett.

A high octane box, with a compact card inside it that just rips through REDCODE.

The R1 is to the RedRocket (form factor) what the EPIC is to the (would be) BOTTLE ROCKET = compact, ready for battle form factor.


David



JanneJansson said:
File formats are just relative when dealing with raw. If you combine the idea of having a RED-MAG reader with a Rocket and thunderbolt bus then you get some interesting possibilities...

When mounting a RED mag to your RED reader/rocket combo you could make the download and convert process the same operation. Just make the hardware in the reader/rocket display the raw files in "virtual folder" on the red mag and then you just "download" the files you like. When the transfer operation begins the hardware transcode raw to whatever need. Prores, Dnxhd, h264, etc.
Click to expand...
 
the camera turned the motion capture industry on it's arse.

This should shut everyone up and turn post production on it's arse.

David
 
The camera is a reader/rocket combo already for some situations it could be useful to just connect the camera to a computer and download. So a thunderbold module to the camera could make for many-many new cool features :)


..but I think "Pocket Rocket" is a cooler name :P
 
I agree.

Let's make it Pocket Rocket.

But let's hope they make it!

David
 
One day, that might be the size of it.

If you want to find out how efficiently and quick bayer wavelet compression can be done, ask David Newman at cineform. I trust his opinion in this as a premium expert on it, he made the first I've come across to do this for the SI camera.
 
Many things are technically do-able withing the red-world I would think, and I'm sure the minds@red have been here also. Depends on other products now in development probably. From my perspective the most important features are those that elevates tech to new dimensions. Like the form factor and resolution/frame rate of Epic. I'm intrigued by the idea of having a Thunderbolt/Light peak module directly on the back of the camera. This can do so many things. Having the camera "bus" extended with a fiber optical interface opens a world of ideas. Live transmission of 4k-raw, extended io-modules, remote control and "live-DIT".... One day there will be a market of live 4k and if red is there first they will surely own sony/canon/panasonic.
 
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