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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MX Upgrade Yields Green Images, Grain

Phil Bates

Phil Bates

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Took the newly upgraded MX camera out for a shoot and the RAW images look awfully green. Here is the default image as seen in the AE plugin:

Plugin%201.png


It can be adjusted, but look at the Tint: -21

Plugin%202.png


And when you look at the 1:1 view, look at the grain. (RAW, no correction)

1to1%20grain.png



Plus when it rolls, it looks very chattery and ugly. What gives? This is not looking like the familiar RED cam that I knew and loved. Is there something I'm missing? Please get back to me ASAP.

Thanks,
Phil
 
Probably because the Color and gamma spaces are set to REDSPACE and aren't reflecting the current Color/gamma space or new color science. That would be my first guess. Import the shot into REDCINE-X and see what you get. If it's the same there I would black shade the camera again, if that doesn't yeild better results I would call RED.
 
Zak & Mike, thanks much for the feedback. You're absolutely right, the images look fine in RedCineX. I made too many legacy compatibility assumptions...

Phil
 
Phil, upgrade to new CS5 if you haven't already. Incorporates new color science and you'll want to select REDcolor and REDgamma. There's no way that images from new M-X chips in a daylight shot like that should have that kind of tinting, nor that kind of noise. Something not quite right there and my guess would be the version of AE you're using. I would follow the advice about bringing it into Redcine-x and seeing what you get there.

Edit: You beat me to it. Cool. Good to hear your camera is ok. :-)
 
Phil, my MX footage looks EXACTLY the same in Adobe CS5 beta version (with no FLUT control). I am betting that the updated, retail version of CS5 does not cause this "Matrix style" green tint on everything.
 
Julio Quintana said:
Hey guys. I'm about to get my sensor upgraded, so does that mean that I have to update my Final Cut Studio 2 to FCS 3? Will this mess up my workflow of cutting proxies, send to Color, color correct and output?
Click to expand...

If you are using the proxies, then yes, your footage will have a green/yellow tint. (I just tested this in FC 6). CS 5, however handles the red footage beautifully. Maybe you should move from final cut to CS 5 if you are going to upgrade?
 
I'm currently using CS4. Everything works, you use it everyday, you don't think about it. But it's obvious that it's time for an upgrade. CS5 is on it's way. :)

Phil
 
So...I noticed that there is no RED plug-in available for CS5. Is the RED compatibility built in, so no plug-in is needed?

Phil
 
Julio Quintana said:
Hey Shane, does the green/yellow tint also show up once you send your timeline to Color in FC 6? Is this just a temporary problem until the Quicktime plugin is updated, or will we all eventually have to update to FC 7?
Click to expand...

I just checked it, looks like it has that same yellow color. I would think that a quicktime plugin update would fix it. Can you make new quicktimes in redcineX like you can in redalert? (not a render, just "make new quicktimes")
 
Ya'll do know that there is a quicktime codec for the new mx color science right?!?!

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCODE_QT_v41_b1.zip

installation instructions:

1) if needed extract the downloaded zip file by double clicking on it

2) copy the now extracted REDCODE.QT.component to the /Library/QuickTime folder to overwrite the old codec

It is possible the REDCODE QuickTime codec is in use by the system. In this case you will have to reboot the system before installation will succeed.

Plus the adobe plug in.
 
Also.

I have found that while MX is more sensitive it is less sharp than the M sensor. It's a tradeoff I guess, more sensitivity but slightly softer and a pleasant grain characteristic.

If you really want to pronounce the grain shoot some 2K and you can see it better.

MX is for sure softer than M.

David
 
J. Eric Camp said:
Ya'll do know that there is a quicktime codec for the new mx color science right?!?!

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/REDCODE_QT_v41_b1.zip

installation instructions:

1) if needed extract the downloaded zip file by double clicking on it

2) copy the now extracted REDCODE.QT.component to the /Library/QuickTime folder to overwrite the old codec

It is possible the REDCODE QuickTime codec is in use by the system. In this case you will have to reboot the system before installation will succeed.

Plus the adobe plug in.
Click to expand...

Oops, missed that one.
It works for FCP and I had put the color plugin in the wrong frameworks folder. all good.
 
My pleasure. Always glad when it is an easy fix.
 
David Battistella said:
Also.

I have found that while MX is more sensitive it is less sharp than the M sensor. It's a tradeoff I guess, more sensitivity but slightly softer and a pleasant grain characteristic.

If you really want to pronounce the grain shoot some 2K and you can see it better.

MX is for sure softer than M.

David
Click to expand...
David, I'm seeing the opposite. MX is sharper AND has a beautiful, organic-looking grain structure.

Given that Red said the new OLPF is indeed resolving better than the old, which is matching my testing, it might be worth testing some more to see if it's an isolated case with your camera?

What's your testing regime?

HTH

Paul
 
Paul Leeming said:
What's your testing regime?

HTH

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,

When I first looked at the side by side it was an MX only Build for the MX camera vs. Build 21 on the M-Sensor.

First noticable softness was on side by side identical calibrated monitors off each camera.

Then we took tiff frames from each camera through RCX and processed both with the new color science REDGAMMA and REDCOLOR.

Here the frames showed similar to what we were seeing on the monitor with the M being a tad sharper, but not as pleasant in color rendition.

Then we "contacted printed" each frame" About 14"x7" inches and compared those frames as well. Same result as the tiff M a bit sharper.

A note that it was all the same cooke glass on both camera's so I think it is a very good test.

Over 500 ISO the M-X is a much better sensor, but well lit and under 500ISO I think it's almost a tie.

The MX gives you much more creative freedom when it comes to where and how you can capture images.


That's my little test. I generally don't make statements like the one I made unless I personally have done the test and seen the results.

David
 
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