MX upgrade solution for Stage 3?

[Sidney L. Plaut]

So I guess I`m a stage 3 epic buyer. But that kindda leaves me in a vacuum in regards to the MX sensor. This is in no way a complaint Just my thoughts regarding my situation.

Im serial 4619... So my Epic is prob some months away, so a MX upgrade would make sense, except I have to turn in the camera for the Stage3 with or without MX sensor it still gives a 17500usd (which ofcourse is very generous), BUT that means that Im NOT buying an MX upgrade unless I really really need too. RED 0 ME 0.

The stage 2 program offers an incentive with a red upgrade, but since the MX upgrade program is still ramping up (or maybe a little behind schedule) this can mean that they get an MX and then relatively shortly there after get their stage2 epic... which ofcourse is nice, but also kindda expensive having a MX "lying" next to an Epic...

So the MX upgrade is really interesting for Stage 3 epic buyers as they will receive their Epic's last. But unless you got an urgent need or alot of excess cash (which you prob dont have, because then you are Stage 2...), the MX upgrade is a little hard to justify, compared to just waiting....

So is there a smart way where everyone would be happy and the result would be win win?

 

[Damien Molineaux]

Well, one possibility, find someone willing to buy your upgraded Red One M-X for 13'500, that's the $9000 extra you have to pay for stage 2 verses 3 + the cost of the upgrade (5750 - 1250 credit).

Another option, find someone who's decided to go stage 2, share the upgrade cost for his camera, then share the camera while he/she waits for his Epic, then you get to use it until you get you Epic.

Or, get creative...

Cheers,
Damien

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I would make a list of pros and cons of all of this. In other words, what do you do with your camera, what features/benefits are missing with your current Red One Mysterium Camera that will justify an upgrade to M-X, Epic, whatever. I can tell you that having an M-X in my R1 is like having a different camera, and is quite honestly changing the way I shoot with RED to a certain extent. I expect that the tweaks in firmware will just make it that much better. So, I have to do the same kind of checklist and make sure that upgrades make sense for me and my business based on what kind of projects I work on, ROI, etc.

If you have the money and can justify the upgrade while you wait until the Epic upgrade, the M-X upgrade to R1 is really great. I think in some ways, it gives you a head start on learning what Epic will be like in terms of exposure, the metering, etc.

I guess the biggest part of this decision is where you fall in line for the M-X upgrade. If it's months away for your SN, I suppose the decision might be a little different than if you are next in line right now.

As far as I am concerned, Jim held his promise about R1 being upgradeable. Will it be as modular as Epic/Scarlet? No, but the fact that the M-X upgrade was possible and that it has essentially given R1 owners a new camera for a few grand is making good on a promise in my book. I know the M-X is the end of the line in terms of sensor upgrades for R1, but your non-executed R1 can still be upgraded to a Monstro later, so again, there's still plenty of options for early adopters who bought into the tagline "making obsolescence obsolete".

 

[A. Clint Litton]

not to hijack the thread, but i'd like to officially vote Steve Sherrick as the best non-Red-affiliated poster on this forum...everything out of the man's mouth is so damn level-headed, well-thought-out, considerate, etc. he's an immense strength to this community.

thanks, Steve, for all you've done and continue to do.

back to original poster's question, it does seem a little counter-intuitive, as stage 3 folks could make more use of the MX upgrade in the short term, but i'm sure Red is hoping that more people will hold onto their R1s, hence sweetening the deal for those people. it's hard to see how Red is being unfair to anyone, only that they're giving everyone options, and part of pulling the trigger on some of those options require capital that some simply don't have...that's the only unfair thing in this situation: some people have more ducats than others!

bottom line, if your work demands/requires the upgrade prior to getting your epic, don't hesitate...you may not have much time to make your ROI, but you'll be loving those few months of shooting with your upgraded R1, and your work will show for that added enjoyment (and technological advantage).

cheers,
clint

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

This is a near impossible decision to make given the vague estimates of EPIC delivery.

MX is here now. Get it. It's worth every penny! I am patiently waiting for my upgrade but have shot with the new sensor and you definitely want it!

I started a similar discussion back in January and was viewed as an ingrate for asking for the kind of information I need to make the decision you are bringing up.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39841

I honestly don't think you want to be without the MX sensor while you wait for your EPIC. If you make a living shooting as a DP it is a total conflict of interest to own gear that you are not committed to keeping current. I have turned down recent rentals of my own camera and rented MX sensors on recent jobs, because it is just the right decision for getting great images. The business side of me is not happy turning down rentals though... :-(

 

[Morning Glory]

The business side of me is not happy turning down rentals though... :-(

True, Dylanski, but once you go M-X, you can't never go back!

As the gentlemen above have all been saying, it really IS a new camera.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I started a similar discussion back in January and was viewed as an ingrate for asking for the kind of information I need to make the decision you are bringing up.
(

No harm in asking for info. There's a transition happening here with the old and new generation of cameras and I'm sure a lot of people are asking similar questions, trying to figure out a roadmap. The economy is still playing a major factor in these decisions too. I'll admit, it's a bit unpredictable out there right now and it complicates investment decisions. There have been some signs of hope these past few months, but unfortunately the US has dug itself a pretty big hole and I'm still wondering if we're on the path of recovery or treading water. But politics and economy aside, in the RED world there are options, some will be better fits for certain people than others. I completely understand when people look for more info, clear timelines, etc. It would certainly help to reach decisions faster. But I also feel that if that info were available, if shipping dates were locked in place, we would be hearing about it from RED. If we're not hearing about it, most likely the timeline is not ready.

The good news is that there have been plenty of hints that we might see first Epic cameras late summer, followed by fixed lens Scarlet a couple of months later. I know the devil is in the details, but still the roadmap has begun and having seen the Epic working in Vegas, it's a good sign they're not too far away from getting these cameras out to more people for beta testing and if that goes smoothly, perhaps production cameras start rolling out as planned.

For those trying to make decisions that affect productions in the near future, I think the saying "everything is subject to change" should still be followed. If you need to decide what camera will be used on a project that is being planned now, I would recommend R1 or R1-MX. These are cameras that you can buy or rent now pretty easily and therefore easy to plan around. I firmly believe RED will have a much smoother process when it comes to rolling out these new cameras and I think it will be different than R1. But there's no way to predict what could happen to trip up that process, even if the plan is rock solid. So, if you need a RED now, get one now. If you don't, maybe wait it out, follow the progress of Epic and buy/rent when possible.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

So I guess I`m a stage 3 epic buyer. But that kindda leaves me in a vacuum in regards to the MX sensor. This is in no way a complaint Just my thoughts regarding my situation.

Im serial 4619... So my Epic is prob some months away, so a MX upgrade would make sense, except I have to turn in the camera for the Stage3 with or without MX sensor it still gives a 17500usd (which ofcourse is very generous), BUT that means that Im NOT buying an MX upgrade unless I really really need too. RED 0 ME 0.

The stage 2 program offers an incentive with a red upgrade, but since the MX upgrade program is still ramping up (or maybe a little behind schedule) this can mean that they get an MX and then relatively shortly there after get their stage2 epic... which ofcourse is nice, but also kindda expensive having a MX "lying" next to an Epic...

So the MX upgrade is really interesting for Stage 3 epic buyers as they will receive their Epic's last. But unless you got an urgent need or alot of excess cash (which you prob dont have, because then you are Stage 2...), the MX upgrade is a little hard to justify, compared to just waiting....

So is there a smart way where everyone would be happy and the result would be win win?

Dont quote me here, but if you do the math, at 4000+ I think its more likely you will get your EPIC before your M-X upgrade. The latter is a precision job, with lots of manual labor. They are not even up to Serial# 500 yet I think (last I checked it was mid mid 400's were almost ready.) So approx. 200 to 300 a month is the current pace.

EPIC 2 is July/Aug. meaning Stage 3 is prolly Sept/Oct... at current M-X upgrade rate, I just don't see you getting yours before then.

Ive paid for the M-X upgrade 2X over already so I wish I had 5 MX's now ... as mine is rented thru June and I get calls EVERY SINGLE DAY!

 

[Rick Darge]

Dont quote me here, but if you do the math, at 4000+ I think its more likely you will get your EPIC before your M-X upgrade. The latter is a precision job, with lots of manual labor. They are not even up to Serial# 500 yet I think (last I checked it was mid mid 400's were almost ready.) So approx. 200 to 300 a month is the current pace.

EPIC 2 is July/Aug. meaning Stage 3 is prolly Sept/Oct... at current M-X upgrade rate, I just don't see you getting yours before then.

Ive paid for the M-X upgrade 2X over already so I wish I had 5 MX's now ... as mine is rented thru June and I get calls EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Same here. I get more calls for MX than I did when I first bought the RedOne over two years ago. Everyone wants MX. I wish I owned 5 MXs too..

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

To my knowledge no MX's yet exists here in Denmark.

I think you are right that a stage 3 could reach me before an MX upgrade, then I would have thrown almost 6000usd out the window....

So the question "what to do?" still lingers.... and I repeat this is NOT a complaint, just thoughts on investments...

EDIT : oh yeah lets not forget the Tax thing (at least in my country) you pay tax on a sale... meaning if you sell your R1 mr tax man would like a receipt. - where as a full refund from RED is taxfree....