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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Muroshi's scarlet design thread

I'm with you studiodrome...I think Scarlet needs to be and will be 4K. Anything less makes no sense.
Aloha
-A
 
How have we all as cameramen and women become producers all of a sudden, obsessed with the buzzword "4k". It's like when producers discovered the word "HD." Regardless of whether it actually added anything or was even appropriate given the situations, "let's shoot it HD" is now "nothing less than 4K is viable?" For a few people 4K may be a great bonus. For most, the beauty of the RED system is not necessarily the pixel count so much as the imager size to price-point ratio. Professional is a VERY widely defined term...but I guess since 2K scanned 35mm film isn't 4k, it's not professional.

I think we'll see what happened with the RED 1 - a prototype body that fits the word of mouth ad campaign - a "pocket professional camera," and by the time it hits the market it will grow to normal size and weight (not necessarily a bad thing). To those people who are demanding a 4K mini body with ALL the same tech specs as the R1, think for a second about the mini-bnc debacle. They used mini BNC's because the body was shaped in a way that could not physically fit full sized BNC's...do you really believe they're just keeping the body as large as it is for fun? I'm sure that if it could be made smaller...even as small as the original concept form factor, they would have! And if they could run the chip and processing system off a handy-cam style battery as opposed to a hi-draw brick, don't you think they would?

The truth is, unless RED has drastically altered the entire microprocessor industry, to miniturize a camera, they must make SOME sacrifices from their flagship product to significantly cut the heat, complexity, and power draw. If it's not 4k, who cares? If it's not a S35 sensor, who cares? Sure, it would be nice but it's certainly not essential if the goal is a compact professional. If you could put a S16 or even 2/3" chip into a camera the size of a DVX, you could sell boatloads of them. And 1080p would be FAR more than enough, as long as the image is clean. It's the same argument we've had all along in still cameras - it's a LOT easier to market using MILLIONS of pixels, whereas a leap of 2 stops in sensitivity or 2 stops of d-range sound like far smaller improvements. It's all marketing!

Hopefully they just make a good camera, regardless of resolution. And hopefully they make it in a form factor that's revoltutionary in it's ease of physical handling. There are a lot of great small cams out there, and so far NONE of them have even approached a form factor that's remotely comfortable to use.
 
Jaron Berman said:
If it's not 4k, who cares? If it's not a S35 sensor, who cares?
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A lot of people care. there are already so many cameras available like you describe. Did RED copy the Genesis? no, they blew it out of the water. Why settle when we can ask for the best?

If they make a 4k pocket camera you can still shoot 2k. Film looks awesome scanned to 2k because the source is so good. Who knows when the Scarlet will even come out. But by the time it does 4k will have already infiltrated the industry. And we will all be noticing the difference of 2k vs 4k when its projected off of a 4k projector.

honestly why would RED create a pocket camera that doesn't match the look of the RED ONE? 1/4 of the rez just doesn't make sense.
 
studiodrome said:
...

honestly why would RED create a pocket camera that doesn't match the look of the RED ONE? 1/4 of the rez just doesn't make sense.
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Because they already have the RED One? Why make another of the same?

Get real: a 4k camera needs 4 times the battery size of a 2k camera. It needs to dispose of the heat from the electronics. If you try to save on size by making a 4k S-16 camera, the pixels will be too small and more important qualities like dynamic range will suffer, and it will be too small to be efficiently cooled.
 
studiodrome said:
A lot of people care. there are already so many cameras available like you describe. Did RED copy the Genesis? no, they blew it out of the water. Why settle when we can ask for the best?

If they make a 4k pocket camera you can still shoot 2k. Film looks awesome scanned to 2k because the source is so good. Who knows when the Scarlet will even come out. But by the time it does 4k will have already infiltrated the industry. And we will all be noticing the difference of 2k vs 4k when its projected off of a 4k projector.

honestly why would RED create a pocket camera that doesn't match the look of the RED ONE? 1/4 of the rez just doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Hey dudes, there ain't no way the camera is gonna be 4K and fit in a pocket and I can tell you why in one word: OPTICS.

If you want fast, sharp glass that can image a S35mm plane its gonna be big. Have you ever held a Cooke S4? It's HUGE.

The only thing I can see is if the FFD for this thing is TINY like on a Leica M, then we might have S35 but unless Red starts rehousing Cosina glass like they did with that Sigma stuff, I guarantee we're looking at 2K in Scarlet.
 
lordnumberzero said:
Hey dudes, there ain't no way the camera is gonna be 4K and fit in a pocket and I can tell you why in one word: OPTICS.

If you want fast, sharp glass that can image a S35mm plane its gonna be big. Have you ever held a Cooke S4? It's HUGE.

The only thing I can see is if the FFD for this thing is TINY like on a Leica M, then we might have S35 but unless Red starts rehousing Cosina glass like they did with that Sigma stuff, I guarantee we're looking at 2K in Scarlet.
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Hmmm... Ever shot with a Lumix. Just sayin'
 
To me..and I would LOVE to be proved wrong, expecting this pocket camera to shoot 4k would be like expecting Canon to squeeze 22 megapixels from their flagship Mark III into a pocket Canon Elf. It would probably cost more to make a tiny 4k pocket camera even with features stripped down.

If Scarlet is 4k, one would have to think that the image will have a nice quality 4k image. If it does have a nice quality 4k image, it would then be comparable to a RED ONE. To expect a 4k image coming out of Scarlet that is even somewhat comparable to the Red One is unrealistic. If we start thinking this, we are going down the path of fantasizing about a smaller and cheaper RED ONE with just less features.

I would love to be proved wrong.

In regards to sound, I have been shooting with the hvx200 ever since it came out and I am extremely dependent on the built in audio capabilities. If Scarlet didn't have built in audio, I wouldn't buy it.
 
Red is not going to give away Red one sales by making a cheaper camera with "almost" as good specs as Red One. Scarlet at best will be 1080p
but very affordable.
 
oldphart said:
It needs to dispose of the heat from the electronics. If you try to save on size by making a 4k S-16 camera, the pixels will be too small and more important qualities like dynamic range will suffer, and it will be too small to be efficiently cooled.
Click to expand...

I think that the many people clamoring for 4K out of this "pocket" camera are missing this heat issue entirely. Don't forget that with 4K a lot of processing is needed, and Red has had troubles keeping the much larger Red One cool enough to operate in hot environments.
________
Bmw m06
 
exactly Ethan. Everything electronic has a certain inefficiency (HEAT). RED1 is as small as it can be already, asking for a much smaller camera with the same specs is... hopeful.

Oldphart hit it too - the current camera IS 4K at s35, and draws over 55 watts! What small handycam style battery have you seen that can sustain a 55 watt draw???? I'd love to see it if it exists.
 
2k or 1080p in a compact size with a possible interchangable lense, slow motion, and ability to customize the LCD or viewfinder would be a nice one. I'm in need to get another camera this year and 2k would be more than enough. Something compact and expandable with low-light capability would be ideal...


cheers to all for giving us another alternative... Redone is out of my league for most of my clients... but something else in terms of what I already shoot like the HVX or EX would be welcome
 
Scarlet 4K; don't dismiss it because you don't think it is possible....remember no one thought Red one was possible.
Aloha
-A
 
ibloom said:
Hmmm... Ever shot with a Lumix. Just sayin'
Click to expand...

Sure, there is a 2.8 zoom on a 12mp Lumix. I see your point but breathing and zoom artifacts on motion shots for that lens might be hard on the eyes.

I think the heat issues associated with processing 4K might be the most interesting objection posted yet.
 
I think that 2K would be enough - at least for the next few years.

I think having a 35mm sensor would be great, not only for the shallow DOF, but also because 2K on a 35mm sensor would be more sensitive (bigger photosites) than a 16mm one, right?

Great drawings too.
 
night rider illustrator concept

night rider illustrator concept

The panel under the screen is a touch screen which is only able to display bright red vectorgraphics, no kinky handylike menus to distract the user. It's pretty flexible. In the example on the left hand side is a jog-wheel graphic with a play and pause button in the middle. I think this is a lot more versatile as the usual forward and rewind buttons we all know. It could also be used for out of the box focusing in record mode.

Then there is a small screen focus panel. Move your finger to the point you like to autofocus on and press the play or record button. Repeat this action to set two autofocus points (Background, actors head). It's what we know from our SLRs, just without the need of moving the camera head.

I was always a little bit pissed of that numeral values on camcorders are printed over the screen and were hard to read under direct sunlight. With a black housing and red values on a black touch screen, this should do the job.

The displays can to a certain extent be adjusted by the users so a left-handed guy can use the jog-wheel from the other side for instance.
 
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