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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Motion blur ?

what's your shutter angle? 180 degrees will still get you quite a bit of motion blur...even on a relatively static shot with someone moving in the frame, if you look at individual still frames, you'll see some blur (1/48th sec exposure time @23.98fps or 1/60th at 29.97fps...neither is a particularly fast shutter speed). going to a 90 degree shutter should make crisper images, 45 degree shutter even more so, but you'll probably have to choose depending on what you're shooting and how well it jives with the subject matter, other shots and scenes, etc. hope this helps...
 
Too small of a shutter angle can make the footage feel "choppy". Also, since your'e shortening each exposure length, you'll need more light or a wider aperture.

But that is the answer: check your shutter speed.
 
greg filipkowski said:
Here is the example, when the cam is slowly going its nice the mint we pan to the right faster BANG, always 180, 23-48 29-60

https://vimeo.com/65866664
Click to expand...

The motion blur looks normal, but there is judder in a few places. Do you have image stabilization on your lens. If so, turn it off when on a tripod.
 
normal pans usually fall within the "speed limit." i don't know how else to describe it, but for every frame rate, shutter angle, object distance and focal length, there is a speed at which you will begin to see stutter. quick google reveals the rule of thumb: let an object cross from one side of the frame to the other in seven seconds.

if you see "motion blur" that doesn't feel right this is usually the problem. I remember the day a documentary operator came back from Southeast Asia looked at her footage and told me all her lovely pans were full of "stutter" because her HVX didn't pan nice. if my tired brain is working right, 60i is more forgiving because there are more frames recorded so less perceived stutter.

greg maybe my eyes are too tired or maybe I couldn't watch it full screen but I didn't see a lot of fast pans. or any fast pans. I saw drifting down.

for me and anyone else, at what point does it become unacceptable?

is it just the general not-so-nice feeling the whole shot has? because part of that is just unsteady movement. the human eye sees in difference. when you move slow then fast then slow then fast then unsteady then fast then slow then kinda even keel then a little faster then suddenly stop you are re-callibrating our "motion sensors" too quickly. much like a run on sentence it is too much too fast all at once. we do not have a "real world" experience of drifting up through space, so the eye and visual cortex need steady movement for it to feel "natural."

not just here but almost always.... steady acceleration works best. much like sitting in the back of a crowded courtesy van. if the driver lets on and off nicely, you don't get carsick; if he likes to floor it and then use the brakes, forget about finally getting to read the script!

I think there are two things working against you in this clip. one is the hard toplight, mix of high and low contrast, murky color, and mercury vapor light, all of that is a cocktail that will punish you hard for unfortunate movement. the other is the "unnatural" experience of floating through space combined with the unsteady camera movement that sometimes speeds up suddenly for a second or so.

that is rapid acceleration. like a twitchy engine. even though the pan doesn't go very far, it moves very fast, breaking the "speed limit" and making for not-so-sexy motion. after all the bullshit I just coughed up, that I think is the root of the issue.

of course your not-so-sexy motion could be muy sexy if the context were right. a car showroom ain't the place for a stuttery "broken up" look. maybe it might be nice for a boxing match, or a car chase, something you wanted it to feel a bit more "raw.: especially with global shutter, or a tessive, er I mean Red motion mount :)

funny thing about all that pan speed nonsense... it seems like we have far more leeway with handheld. just personal experience here. would love to hear someone else's!
 
Yeah, motion stutter is less apparent when shooting handheld because of the organic movement of the camera, it's not following a defined rigid path like it would if it were on sticks, jib, dolly or whatever. Handheld has all kinds of micro pitch, roll, and yaw movements when panning so your brain has less of a chance of perceiving where the proceeding frames should fall.

Most stutter gets hidden by other organic movements in a scene, it distracts you from the static parts that are stuttering. Really easy to perceive stutter in scenes like the car showroom that Greg posted because of all the hard edges, detail, and lines. Animate a shape in whatever software and have it break the "speed limit" moving across the screen and it will stutter like crazy....Then soften the edges of the shape and give it some motion blur and it is much less noticeable.

The RED motion mount should help remedy some of this.

Note: I only watched the link on my phone, so this is just a generalization of what may or may not be happening.
 
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greg filipkowski said:
Any idea guys I'm always shooting relative 23.98 or 29.97, the footage looks Great however when i start panning or doing faster action i get a massive motion blur. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

It's because you're not number 1 on long island ;)

Thats jutter, not blur I'm seeing. We should have put the shutter speed a little bit hire for quicker moves, although It looks accentuated by the lines, it feels like a sharpening filter/line skipping issue. Although I know its not... you may wanna play back the full 4K to see if it looks the same on the R3D file. It could be due to your settings when you export out from RCX.
 
Definitely something odd here. This is not a strobbing effect you might expect on a pan. Looks like missing or hybrid frames? You need to do some more research here
 
Tom Gleeson said:
Definitely something odd here. This is not a strobbing effect you might expect on a pan. Looks like missing or hybrid frames? You need to do some more research here
Click to expand...

I agree very odd and not normal looking. I know it was shot at normal 180
 
Just watched it again, this time on my computer and agree it is odd. I have seen it before though in similar situations with high contrast lines and detailed scenes. Have you watched playback on the camera? or a TV? Could it be all of our GPU's not redrawing all that information fast enough? That would be silly, but I'm just throwing things out there :) It does look kind of like dropped frames.

I once took a piece of white foamcore and drew black vertical lines on it with a fat Sharpie and panned. No matter how slow I went it would still strobe/judder/stutter....
 
My guess, you got image stabilazer on your lens. Do not use it if you try to do nice moving, jib moves and such. the gyro gets confused of the constant movent and snapps in and out of action. giving you a bad studdering frame.

If the above is not the case then it seams like you got some framerate issues. Like your capture is not played up at an even framerate so it skips frames or such.


Stab your images in post, doing it in still lenses is usually a bad decision, cant be undone and often leaves artifacts.
 
2 - r3d files, one is moving slower one faster
Lens dosent have stabilization rokina 14mm at 4-5.2 f stop
http://vispol.tv/download/blur.zip

A005_C047_04250L.0001416F- little faster nothing crazy BLUR!!!!!!
A005_C047_04250L.0000220F-slower pan NO BLUR!, my feeling they should look as sharp, slow or fast, im not going 100mph:)
 
greg filipkowski said:
2 - r3d files, one is moving slower one faster
Lens dosent have stabilization rokina 14mm at 4-5.2 f stop
http://vispol.tv/download/blur.zip

A005_C047_04250L.0001416F- little faster nothing crazy BLUR!!!!!!
A005_C047_04250L.0000220F-slower pan NO BLUR!, my feeling they should look as sharp, slow or fast, im not going 100mph:)
Click to expand...

Try rendering them out with your Alchemy and Unsharp mask settings turned off.
 
I don't see blur from your vimeo link, I see the opposite, choppy stuttery playback. What is your definition of blur?
 
greg filipkowski said:
If you look at the r3d you can really see the blur
Click to expand...

Something strange is going on here. First off the r3d's I downloaded are just a single frame r3d snapshots, and there is definitely no blur in them. Quite the opposite based on the metadata settings that came along with them, there is a pretty heavy Alchemy and unsharp mask setting that looks like you have applied. Very sharp looking to my eyes, to the point where you are getting aliasing. I see no blur in the r3d's or the vimeo link. Are other people seeing blur?
 
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