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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

more renders...

Don't count Avid out. One of the members of this forum is really on top of the development of Red workflow and other advancements in video editing. Competition is good. Having three major players in the world of NLE would be a good thing. It keeps everybody sharp and in tune with their customer base.
 
Peter, are you saying FCP is way ahead of Avid now? I have always been an avid user, but am considering switching over to FCP cuz of what you get for the price, plus I may finally make the switch from PC to MAC, as I am beginning to see why some many love their MACs...

Having been using FCP since version 2 I can say that the capabilities that exist in version 6 are nothing short of spectacular. I have never come across an edit FCP can't handle. 35. 16. HD. SD. No problems. Most of the complaints I see stem more from workflow methodologies and unfamiliarity with the interface rather than actual capabilities. I've worked with Avid and it frustrates me... but probably mostly because of my lack of familiarity. Avid has had to drastically change it's business model due to the success and advancement of FCP and, as Steve mentioned, competition is a good thing. It forces both Apple and Avid to continually advance the products and the cost at which they deliver them... not unlike what I think RED is doing for the digital imaging markets.

As for the PC to Mac switch... you will not be disappointed. I've yet to meet a single person who has been... unless you use a blackberry:ranting2:
 
Just for the record - I'm not writing AVID "off". It is and will remain great editing SW. But FCP has one huge advantage for me and many others - FCS... It's integration (and inclusion) of all the other complementary postproduction SW is astonishing. Each of the individual SW in the package is worth the cost of the whole Suite. I bought DVD-Maestro from Spruce Technologies for $95K AUD (Aussie Bucks) 6 months before Apple bought it out and included it the $1200 USD Suite. Color was $25K USD as Silicon Color before being bought out by Apple and included in the same Suite. Ditto for Soundtrack Pro, Motion and all the bits and pieces that come with the Suite. For anyone on tight budget (and who isn't these days...) - the Suite is a no-brainer. No matter how good or bad AVID really is - it has long way to go to come even close to offering the value that comes with the FCS. This is why 29 out of 30 new purchases are FCS, not AVID...

They are both great editors and clearly capable delivering top-notch results. In reality more then 90% of the users use less the 10% of their potential. What makes FCP so successful is the FCS packaging...

Just my two cents... :)

Peter
 
... unless you use a blackberry:ranting2:

Not to hijack, but, just let the Blackberry go. I have had 5 or so blackberries over the years--I've even developed on it--it sucks.

Get an iPhone. Sure, you'll say "but the typing..." but you are 10x to 1 pulling information out rather than putting information in and for that the iPhone is 1000x better.

6 people who work for me all had blackberries and one by one switched--none of them ever looked back.

For me, the change came when, on day one, I brought my wife an iPhone but couldn't give up my blackberry. Day after day I found myself saying "Can I use your phone to check the stocks... the news... the weather... use your browser..." Once I switched--I've never regretted it once--and can't honestly see going to any other phone.

Microsoft invited me to a special event where they were showing their developments on their phone with their Windows Mobile OS and my only thought was "they are so out of touch and so far behind..."

Stop thinking. Just get an iPhone.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread :)
 
Not to hijack, but, just let the Blackberry go. I have had 5 or so blackberries over the years--I've even developed on it--it sucks.

Get an iPhone. Sure, you'll say "but the typing..." but you are 10x to 1 pulling information out rather than putting information in and for that the iPhone is 1000x better.

6 people who work for me all had blackberries and one by one switched--none of them ever looked back.

For me, the change came when, on day one, I brought my wife an iPhone but couldn't give up my blackberry. Day after day I found myself saying "Can I use your phone to check the stocks... the news... the weather... use your browser..." Once I switched--I've never regretted it once--and can't honestly see going to any other phone.

Microsoft invited me to a special event where they were showing their developments on their phone with their Windows Mobile OS and my only thought was "they are so out of touch and so far behind..."

Stop thinking. Just get an iPhone.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread :)

Agreed. I actually have both 1st and 2nd gen iPhones, purchased the day they came out. :wink:
 
The New Red Price List

The New Red Price List

Jim! OK, when-ever you’re ready, I’m ready for your Cameras prices, or rather we are-all ready for them. That would include everything or at least whatever you can provide. So far we have the prices for the most important thing, The Brain! Now we need the rest of the body.


I began a spread-sheet with the descriptions; I have some prices, the brains, and the old accessories. But I’m missing all the new things. As I said, whenever you are!

The prices are extremely important in order to plan for what to purchase, and to get a fuller picture of the whole amount. So we wait with baited-breathe for the Price List, again whenever you’re ready! I guess it will be somewhere between NAB 2009 and Today, that we’ll get the Prices!

It all LOOKS great!
 
http://www.21-19.com/

251_1229317421.jpg


this creature in one of their movies looks a lot like jim's spider
 
No offense Dara, but that is because you are looking in the rear-view mirror. If You look straight ahead, you may still catch some dust FCP left behind... :red_bandana:

And if you look way ahead, around the corner, you might catch a glimpse Adobe laying down some tire spikes. :gun: :gun: :gun:
 
Doesnt FCP use only one CPU core? :whistling:

Cant remember details but there was a thread with some dude who bought 8 core Mac just find out that FCP use only one core. :waaa:
 
Doesnt FCP use only one CPU core? :whistling:

Cant remember details but there was a thread with some dude who bought 8 core Mac just find out that FCP use only one core. :waaa:

Sad truth is that most software out there is poorly optimized for multi-core operation. Even with the number of cores growing with new CPU models, developers are still on the slow track to actually taking advantage of this. A lot of this has to do with the need to completely re-write entire code bases to properly make use of multiprocessing. It's not as simple as flipping a switch in the compiler software and magically all the cores in a system are instantly put to use. Not only that, but there are far more theories out there about what proper multithreading and multiprocessor code should do. Far more theories than practice at this point. The hardware is evolving much faster than the software at this point too.

For the past several years, and even currently, most multiprocessor efforts are being applied to very CPU-intensive operations such as encoding, compression, rendering, etc..

FCS is not alone in this regard. Some operations do make use of multi-threading, multiple cores in some way. But FCP is pretty much single-processor. Then again, so is Premiere Pro, the core components of AE, etc.. Some day, we will see much better use of all these CPUs in a system. Hopefully sooner than later. But let's also be realistic here and accept that developers are struggling with support for 64bit OS's, let alone entire re-writes to facilitate proper multiprocessor operation.
 
If you take that risk and overwrite kern of an application you can end like Softimage. Its long and painful road to get all bugs out and when users dont get their periodic supply of so called "updates", they start moaning and thinking that company is dead. :angry02:
 
I just wish they got their shit together already... they need to come up with a system that can be applied down the line for chips with more cores.

Or I might have to get a 4.0GHz quad on a mineral bath with two massive 3 x 120mm fan radiators going... :D

I think the best bet might be to make NLEs be GPU intensive... that way you can swap, add upgrade much more often and easier. Get four Quadros going or finally get your first. But it will never happen. Also, we won't go much higher in CPU frequencies than 4GHz cause there is no point... about 5GHz it starts to be a real big issue still. What we will see is Octo Cores... so we need to wait for enough people to develop their software so that the rest has to catch up.
 
And if you look way ahead, around the corner, you might catch a glimpse Adobe laying down some tire spikes. :gun: :gun: :gun:

True that. Just saw a tutorial on CS4 Premier and After Effects and the new Red plug-in. Very nice for native r3d handling.

Peter, you're correct about FCP. This is what makes Studio and Adobe so appealing: because of their bundles. They're all comparable editors when it all comes down to it but the extra softwares that work and integrate with the NLE's is what gives them the advantage in the end.

I'm a life-long Avid editor and still swear by it (because of familiarity and PC hardware cost--although the editor price kills what you were able to save)but the bundle packages are quite attractive.
 
I just wish they got their shit together already... they need to come up with a system that can be applied down the line for chips with more cores.

Or I might have to get a 4.0GHz quad on a mineral bath with two massive 3 x 120mm fan radiators going... :D

I think the best bet might be to make NLEs be GPU intensive... that way you can swap, add upgrade much more often and easier. Get four Quadros going or finally get your first. But it will never happen. Also, we won't go much higher in CPU frequencies than 4GHz cause there is no point... about 5GHz it starts to be a real big issue still. What we will see is Octo Cores... so we need to wait for enough people to develop their software so that the rest has to catch up.

Apple is actually doing exactly that. CUDA. With Nvidia...
They have realized what is happening and that is why Snow Leopard is basically a streamlined and multi-core optimized Leopard that also uses heavily the GPU power, rewritten from scratch...

:) Peter
 
I just wish they got their shit together already... they need to come up with a system that can be applied down the line for chips with more cores.

Or I might have to get a 4.0GHz quad on a mineral bath with two massive 3 x 120mm fan radiators going... :D

I think the best bet might be to make NLEs be GPU intensive... that way you can swap, add upgrade much more often and easier. Get four Quadros going or finally get your first. But it will never happen. Also, we won't go much higher in CPU frequencies than 4GHz cause there is no point... about 5GHz it starts to be a real big issue still. What we will see is Octo Cores... so we need to wait for enough people to develop their software so that the rest has to catch up.

Well, as far as I know, its much more difficult to program something to make use of multiple cores. As far as bumping speed to something higher, I am sure its something that can be done, but from what I see, people are more concerned at being able to do more at once rather than doing one thing at a time at a faster pace.
 
It is way more involved to program something to use multiple cores. The simplest approach, and the one most commonly used, is to parallelize operations within an application. A good example is rendering of an image, where the image can be divided up into as many sections as there are CPUs/cores and each core works on an assigned piece of that image at the same time. Or even smaller chunks that can be assigned to a "thread" and these threads can be loaded onto whichever CPU/core becomes open to process them, with some restrictions, but that's a whole other discussion. However this approach does little to help applications that have large amounts of idle time between very short, but demanding operations or applications that are intensive, but the data does not present itself in a manner that would benefit from parallelism.

Another thing that is causing confusion in the market is that programmers are lazy. I know, I used to be one. :) What I'm really saying is that software makers in general have become accustomed to computers just routinely getting faster and that requires very little, if any, changes to their code base to see speed benefits over time. The software industry has been getting a lot of mixed signals from the chip makers over the past few years too. Two years ago, Intel and AMD both were pushing multi-core software development paradigms. They were telling everyone that increases in CPU MHz was at an end until far superior manufacturing methods can be developed, the x86 architecture was as efficient as it was going to get, blah, blah, blah... From there on out speed increases would be realized by stacking more processor "cores" onto a single CPU die. Product roadmaps were showing 16 and 32 core models for 2010 with an eventual progression to about 70 to 80 cores as both chip makers felt that would be the upper limit. Developers didn't jump on that because a great many of them just did not know where to begin. No compiler support or hardware platforms to test on. Developing an application that scales well across 2 or 4 CPUs is vastly different than one that is entirely nodal or cellular in nature that can scale across 50+ CPUs. Not to mention, the software industry is largely reactive and not proactive. They develop for the new hardware that has just hit the market or the hardware that they can get early versions of to work on. They don't develop new applications or large scale re-writes for hypothetical hardware that has not even been demonstrated yet.

Here we are, over 2 years later, and chip makers have not released the 16-core CPUs we were to have now, not even 8-core ones. They're still refining the quad-core variants and with every product revision, we're seeing overall gains of 15-25% in performance while maintaining the same clock rates. So once again, software developers are just shrugging it off and sticking to their typical attitudes of "if you want it to run faster, buy a new computer in 6 to 8 months. Oh, and our render engine supports multiple cores because that's the only place you need it anyway."

I hope Peter is right about what Apple is doing, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
 
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