Moon and clouds

[Antony M]

Is there anyway to film the moon and clouds properly exposed?

Or does it need to be faked in After Effects (or similar)?

If I expose for the moon, then the clouds are too dark to see.
Vice versa, if I expose for the clouds, then the moon is blown out.

I have Google'd and on photography websites they suggest HDR. Obviously this is not possible in video.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, it's a bit like wanting to shoot a daytime sky... and expose for both the surface of the sun so that it's not burned out to white but also make the sky look normally exposed -- it's just too extreme a difference. The moon is reflecting the sun afterall.

You'd need to shoot once exposed for the moon and once exposed for the moonlit sky (which is much, much dimmer) and combine the two passes in post. Unless you get the right weather conditions when the moon is near the horizon and the exposure differences are not as extreme, just as when shooting sunset shots where you can get a reddish sunball but still see color and detail in the clouds.

Even more generally, it's the classic problem of shooting both a light source and the subject it is lighting in the same frame -- like having people lit by a campfire and wanting to expose for the flames but also expose for what the flames are lighting.

 

[Marc Berger]

Full moon rise, like David said. November and December! The best two month in the year to get it (northern hemisphere).
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Marc

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Even more generally, it's the classic problem of shooting both a light source and the subject it is lighting in the same frame -- like having people lit by a campfire and wanting to expose for the flames but also expose for what the flames are lighting.

David, how would you handle this shot? Lim

 

[David Mullen ASC]

If the people are close enough to the fire, you can get away with splitting the exposure between the flames and the faces and holding detail in both, just as when a face is close enough to a lampshade.

But as the people stand farther back, you have to make some hard choices in exposure -- either that or add lighting to the people to bring them up to the stop you want to shoot the flames at. One trick is to shoot the people in semi-silhouette against the flames so the exposure can be more on the fire, not the faces. Another trick, if the campfire is on one side of the frame, is to try an ND grad to darken just the fire half of the frame.

Or use artificial lighting or off-camera flame bars or additional fires to bring up the light level on the faces more.

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Thanks David for your usual quick response. Lim

 

[Antony M]

David,

Thank you for another great answer.
As expected, I will fake/combine in post.

Antony

 

[Dominic Cochran]

Thank you for another great answer.
As expected, I will fake/combine in post.

Try shooting it first before you decide to fake it! You might be surprised at how nicely it turns out.

The problem is you'll have to use a locked off camera if you don't want to use a MoCo rig.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Isn't this just a matter of waiting for the correct time of evening to shoot it? I think there comes a time when the sky and moon fall into balance, long before actual nightfall.

Here is a single exposure from one of my contacts on Flickr:

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Yes, but I think he's asking about a shot where the moonlight is illuminating the clouds, not the fading sunset.

 

[albert rudnicki]

If you get lucky or patient, you can wait for the moment where clouds cover slightly the moon; clouds will work as a natural nd on the moon.

 

[Antony M]

@Dominic:
I have been taking test shots for a few weeks now. And haven't been able to get both cloud and moon correct in the same exposure.

@David:
Exactly, I want the moon illuminating the clouds.

This is the closest example I can find on Flikr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesinthebackcountry/994561876/

and as the photographer notes:
"So I shot two exposures (1/100 and 4 sec) and blended the two in Photoshop"

 

[Sarah C.]

I enjoy photographing stills of the moon.. (Notice my avatar? ). But.. To get the fx you are looking for you really need a unique set of events to get enough exposure of the clouds in the same frame as the moon. As a vfx person I would say optimal would be to shoot two passes and comp ( moon + clouds ). Then you have full exposure and color control, not to mention opacity and composition. Truth be known tho, I could make something like this in a cg anim quicker than packing gear, driving to the location.. And at ANY resolution, color, angle, phase, etc. Add a city, mountain, etc... Well you get the idea.

 

[paulherrin]

There has been some discussion about the use of a 3D mirroring rig (beam-splitter) with two cameras and using zero coaxial seperation (so as to insure they are absolutely identical images). Is this an option? If so, it should work very well.

If not, and the type of shot cannot be done from seperate takes... mind this is theoretical because I have not worked with the camera myself. If you can get the best middle exposure between the clouds and the moon as possible - would the latitude of the camera in post cover both a decent exposure towards the clouds and the moon? Either way, this should be better than what you had. Try simply "baking out" the exposure as you shot it, darker, and lighter - then combine in post, either simple (hopefully) compositing or doing a frame-by-frame automation or script in photoshop/ photomatix. You will most likely lose a bit of quality, but hey, it could be really cool. Just my thoughts. I hope that makes some sense. And be sure to let me know what you find out. If it doesn't work so well with the One, the improved dynamic range and latitude of the new line should do the trick much better!

Also, would it be possible to just do a timelapse for the shot? HDR would be much simpler if so, using a DSLR or such with auto-exposure bracketing. Could be a very viable, inexpensive, and yet high quality result.

 

[albert rudnicki]

Does anyone nows any utility to calculate position of the moon at specific time and location.
I am using google earth for spotting the sun, but moon seams a bit more tricky.

A.

 

[David W. Jones]

ND soft edge spot filter along with auto-track head.
Align ND spot over moon in frame and let auto-track head follow earth's motion and stay locked on moon.

All the Best!