Monstro Upgrade Path?

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Okay, this question was asked several times in the announcements reaction thread, but the question (and perhaps the answer) got lost in all the noise.

Currently RED ONE has the Mysterium Sensor. When Epic and Scarlet first came out, it was announced that they would contain the Mysterium-X sensor. Shortly after, Monstro was announced.

The upgrade path at that time, as I recall, went like this:

Red One: Ships with Mysterium, paid upgrade to Mysterium-X, paid upgrade to Monstro

Scarlet: Ships with Mysterium-X, paid upgrade to Monstro

Epic: Ships with Mysterium-X, free upgrade to Monstro

But now, Scarlet and Epic as we knew them are no more. Now we've got interchangeable "brains" shipping instead of full-blown cameras. I think the fully-modular system is fantastic, but now the question becomes whether the sensor upgrade path will still be viable, or whether we will be expected to buy a whole new brain.

So, I would like to get an answer from someone in the know at RED: if we buy a brain with a Mysterium-X sensor -- and particularly the Mysterium-X Select -- will there be an upgrade path to Monstro down the line?

I assume that the "free upgrade" idea is out the window, and I'm cool with that, and I'm sure all of your (reasonable) customers would be. We just want to know.

 

[Jason Ing]

Yes, you buy the brain. It was confirmed by Jarred in the other thread. If you upgrade the Red One to the Epic X, you will have to pay $33k for the entire brain of an FF35. However, this cost will be offset by the price that you sale your Epic X.

 

[Rick Darge]

I think the question is if we buy a Reserve X Epic, will we get a free upgrade to the Monstro sensor, not the FF35. If the R1 can upgrade to the Mysterium-X then to the Monstro, I don't see how it would be no.. Now being free, we'll see

 

[Jason Ing]

From what I understand, once you're in the new modular system (Scarlett/Epic), a sensor upgrade is buying the entire brain; not swap out just the individual sensor.

Just trying to help out here.

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Yes, you buy the brain. It was confirmed by Jarred in the other thread. If you upgrade the Red One to the Epic X, you will have to pay $33k for the entire brain of an FF35. However, this cost will be offset by the price that you sale your Epic X.

But that's not the question I'm asking.

I'm not asking about upgrading from an S35 Mysterium-X to a FF35 Monstro. It makes sense that different sensor sizes and specs require a new purchase. That's the equivalent of going from R1 to Epic and I would expect to pay full price. I'm talking S35 Mysterium-X to S35 Monstro. That's the equivalent of going R1 Mysterium to R1 Mysterium-X, and while I would expect to pay, I should think it could be significantly less than buying a whole new brain.

 

[Jason Ing]

Oh, sorry, I see. You mean if you kept your Red One body? I think the answer is yes.

This was in today's Dec 3rd post from Jim:

We also said we would offer a RED ONE sensor upgrade to keep it current in a world of ever-improving electronics. We have kept that promise with a Mysterium-X upgrade path when it is finished, then to the Monstro sensor which will follow.

 

[Jason Ing]

And from what I can tell, it's 5k more for the Monstro sensor if you go buy the price difference between the S35 and FF35. Since you're going to pay for that, then consider that it will cost 4.5k to the mysterium x which is only 6k away from upgrading to the Epic X. Funny I say "only"... like I got that under my mattress or something.

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Oh, sorry, I see. You mean if you kept your Red One body? I think the answer is yes.

This was in today's Dec 3rd post from Jim:

We also said we would offer a RED ONE sensor upgrade to keep it current in a world of ever-improving electronics. We have kept that promise with a Mysterium-X upgrade path when it is finished, then to the Monstro sensor which will follow.

Stiiiiill not quite hitting the target, but close.

If I buy the Epic X when it becomes available, it will come with the Mysterium-X. About six months later, Monstro sensors will become available.

If I keep my RED ONE body I can pay $4,500 to put a next-gen sensor in it. I don't want to do that, because I want the Epic X. So I'll trade it in.

But, down the line, will an equivalent program be in place?

If I wish to keep my Epic X body when Monstro comes out, will I have the option of paying $4,500 (or some other amount, the point is less than the $28K for a whole new brain) to put a next-gen sensor in it?

 

[Jason Ing]

Oh, so that goes back to the first point. Once you have a brain, whichever one it is, you can't upgrade a brain by swapping out a sensor only. You have to buy the entire brain. Now did I get it?

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Oh, so that goes back to the first point. Once you have a brain, whichever one it is, you can't upgrade a brain by swapping out a sensor only. You have to buy the entire brain. Now did I get it?

You get the question I'm asking, but the answer you're applying was the answer to a different question, and doesn't answer mine.

Yes, RED has said that the only way to get from an S35 sensor to a FF35 sensor is to buy a new brain, which makes sense, because you're talking about completely different sensor types.

BUT: We haven't heard anything about the possibility of going from an S35 Mysterium-X Epic to an S35 Monstro Epic.

It should be no different from going from an S35 Mysterium Red One to an S35 Mysterium-X Red One.

But it's up to RED whether they will offer that or not, and they haven't said. .

 

[Jason Ing]

But there is no S35 Monstro.

There is the S35 Mysterium X (30x15mm).

And then there is the FF35 Mysterium Monstro (36x24mm). The FF stands for Full Frame, the size of the sensor.

Take a look at the charts. Maybe I missed something?

 

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

But there is no S35 Monstro.

Since they intend to provide a Monstro upgrade path to RED ONE -- and RED ONE is S35 -- and as we have established sensor upgrades will get you the same sensor size -- then there must obviously be a plan to develop S35 Monstro sensors, regardless of the fact that it doesn't come standard in any of the cameras listed on the sheet.

In point of fact, it is BECAUSE it doesn't come standard on the sheet that I am asking the question. Is there an upgrade path, similar to the one available to RED ONE, for cameras released after RED ONE but before Monstro?

And this is the reason I asked for someone from RED to answer, because they are the only ones who know what they plan to do.

 

[Jason Ing]

Lol.

Okay, we actually asked the same question but said it differently... sort of! I asked it in the other thread. If an S35 Monstro is the only thing that can fit in Red One and Jim says, Yes, you'll be able to put a Monstro sensor into the Red One, then I guess that says there will eventually be an S35 Monstro sensor. But my guess is that he's not going to want to be swapping out sensors in the brain line. That's the whole point of designing the brains, right? So if there is a Red One, S35 Monstro, maybe he's going to make it especially for the Red One? Although that sounds expensive and crazy.

 

[Joseph Ward]

Since they intend to provide a Monstro upgrade path to RED ONE -- and RED ONE is S35 -- and as we have established sensor upgrades will get you the same sensor size -- then there must obviously be a plan to develop S35 Monstro sensors, regardless of the fact that it doesn't come standard in any of the cameras listed on the sheet.

In point of fact, it is BECAUSE it doesn't come standard on the sheet that I am asking the question. Is there an upgrade path, similar to the one available to RED ONE, for cameras released after RED ONE but before Monstro?

And this is the reason I asked for someone from RED to answer, because they are the only ones who know what they plan to do.

This makes sense to me. Why would someone by the Epic S35 if it can't be upgraded but RedOne can?

 

[Jason Ing]

This makes sense to me. Why would someone by the Epic S35 if it can't be upgraded but RedOne can?

For the new modular body system? You'll have access to the new mounts and new lenses, remote module, etc. etc.

 

[Joseph Ward]

For the new modular body system? You'll have access to the new mounts and new lenses, remote module, etc. etc.

This makes sense but if a ''Newer Future Epic S35 Brain'' comes along with a similar price of the ''First Epic S35'', I would think that the RedOne with sensor upgrades is a better deal. I just think a new sensor $4,500 is great! For a newer brain how much will that cost? Red will always make better brains but at what price are they going to sell them? The new DSMC system should be cheap for parts(excluding lenses) but the brain is going to cost the most.

For me I would love the new DSMC Brains to have Sensor upgrades like RedOne. :biggrin:

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

This makes sense but if a ''Newer Future Epic S35 Brain'' comes along with a similar price of the ''First Epic S35'', I would think that the RedOne with sensor upgrades is a better deal. I just think a new sensor $4,500 is great! For a newer brain how much will that cost? Red will always make better brains but at what price are they going to sell them? The new DSMC system should be cheap for parts(excluding lenses) but the brain is going to cost the most.

For me I would love the new DSMC Brains to have Sensor upgrades like RedOne. :biggrin:

the red has some annoying parts:
boot up
fan
heavy (not heavy compared to filmcams but it can be better, which i hope to get with the new models)
minixlr
minibnc

 

[Jason Ing]

This makes sense but if a ''Newer Future Epic S35 Brain'' comes along with a similar price of the ''First Epic S35'', I would think that the RedOne with sensor upgrades is a better deal. I just think a new sensor $4,500 is great! For a newer brain how much will that cost? Red will always make better brains but at what price are they going to sell them? The new DSMC system should be cheap for parts(excluding lenses) but the brain is going to cost the most.

For me I would love the new DSMC Brains to have Sensor upgrades like RedOne. :biggrin:

Question is: Will the sensor only upgrade for the Red One eventually stop? It isn't a clear that there will be a Monstro that will fit the Red One... so... ?

 

[Joseph Ward]

Question is: Will the sensor only upgrade for the Red One eventually stop? It isn't a clear that there will be a Monstro that will fit the Red One... so... ?

I don't know if Red will make any more Sensors for R1 after Monstro? But Jim promised that there will be an upgrade path for Monstro on R1.

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=338059&postcount=2

Maybe the new S35 Scarlet and Epics will start with Monstro instead of Mysterium X? Or All Red Brains from Scarlet to Epic will have future sensor upgrades for their format/brain? My point is that so far, long term is looking better for R1 after all? Just rhetorical. I really don't think there is a right or wrong answer to what is better. Lots of questions that may make a difference in the decision making.

 

[Dominic Cochran]

This is a great question Scott, I really hope this happens. It would make sense since, like Jim said, they ARE developing the S35 Monstro for the R1. This would make the decision to go with the Special Edition Epic a no-brainer for us, where currently it's not easy at all. I just want the increased DR of the Monstro, don't care about the bigger sensor.

Also, to clarify, I wouldn't expect it to be free either.