Monitor Calibration (11 Series)

[zak forrest]

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[Ido Karilla]

With the dual SDI module on the 11, an X-rite beamer and Cinespace it is quite strait foreword to achive calibration to whatever profile you need.

 

[M Most]

With the dual SDI module on the 11, an X-rite beamer and Cinespace it is quite strait foreword to achive calibration to whatever profile you need.

You don't calibrate a Rec 709 monitor with LUTs, you calibrate it via proper monitor setup, especially if you're using it primarily for HD video work.

The best way to do this, especially the first time, is to contact someone who does monitor calibration professionally and have them come in and do it. You can then ask a lot of questions as to the best methods and tools to maintain that calibration yourself. There are programs like Cal Man that are very good for this. You will, of course, need some sort of probe, and with a plasma monitor, you don't want a contact probe device, you want something that will sit a bit of distance from the surface of the monitor.

Like I said, if you want this to be done right, step #1 is calling in someone to do it. It will be $300-400 well spent. Barring that, you might want to check out AVS Forum online, where you'll find a lot more detailed descriptions.

 

[Ido Karilla]

You don't calibrate a Rec 709 monitor with LUTs, you calibrate it via proper monitor setup, especially if you're using it primarily for HD video work.

Hey Mike,
you are more experienced and educated in color management the me, I am still strugling to get an understanding of the matter.
So I just want to share my findings, fresh from today, and hear your thoughts.

The 11 has a built in "monitor" setup that brings its max white to around 50cd/m^2 so I guess it is not aimed for rec 709. More then that, with Cinespace profiler I got a profile with blacks around 0.05 cd/m^2 and very good decoupling error.

All that was done today so I have not tested it fully.
But the image I saw of Redlog material from the Scratch with a Lut based on this profile was very impressing.

Thanks.

 

[Emery Wells]

You don't calibrate a Rec 709 monitor with LUTs, you calibrate it via proper monitor setup, especially if you're using it primarily for HD video work.

The best way to do this, especially the first time, is to contact someone who does monitor calibration professionally and have them come in and do it. You can then ask a lot of questions as to the best methods and tools to maintain that calibration yourself. There are programs like Cal Man that are very good for this. You will, of course, need some sort of probe, and with a plasma monitor, you don't want a contact probe device, you want something that will sit a bit of distance from the surface of the monitor.

Like I said, if you want this to be done right, step #1 is calling in someone to do it. It will be $300-400 well spent. Barring that, you might want to check out AVS Forum online, where you'll find a lot more detailed descriptions.

Hey Mike, Ive been trying to get an answer on how to best account for the luma limiting the panel has built in. I forget the exact numbers but when displaying a full white field the panel will limit itself to something like 25-foot lamberts in 'standard' or 'cinema' mode. In 'video' mode it will still limit the luma but at least keep it fairly consistent from shot to shot. Were you running it in video or cinema/standard mode? If running in cinema/standard, did you find the luma limiting to be problematic? I can imagine that if you have a talking head against white and everything suddenly looks 'duller' than the other images, this could be a problem.

 

[M Most]

Hey Mike, Ive been trying to get an answer on how to best account for the luma limiting the panel has built in. I forget the exact numbers but when displaying a full white field the panel will limit itself to something like 25-foot lamberts in 'standard' or 'cinema' mode. In 'video' mode it will still limit the luma but at least keep it fairly consistent from shot to shot. Were you running it in video or cinema/standard mode? If running in cinema/standard, did you find the luma limiting to be problematic? I can imagine that if you have a talking head against white and everything suddenly looks 'duller' than the other images, this could be a problem.

As I recall, we set it up in Video mode, but with all automatic circuitry defeated. However, I'll be at a SMPTE meeting tonight with essentially every chief engineer in town, so if I remember, I'll ask around.

 

[HD Hildebrand]

Hey Mike, Ive been trying to get an answer on how to best account for the luma limiting the panel has built in. I forget the exact numbers but when displaying a full white field the panel will limit itself to something like 25-foot lamberts in 'standard' or 'cinema' mode. In 'video' mode it will still limit the luma but at least keep it fairly consistent from shot to shot. Were you running it in video or cinema/standard mode? If running in cinema/standard, did you find the luma limiting to be problematic? I can imagine that if you have a talking head against white and everything suddenly looks 'duller' than the other images, this could be a problem.

This is what I'm finding as well. Mike, if you can find out, that would be great. I've been running in Cinema mode and there seems to be some white clipping. I'll try video mode with the same settings and see how that is.

Also, I believe I have every single auto setting turned off, however, are there any hidden away that one might miss.

Thanks for any info,
Dale

 

[Ido Karilla]

Hey Mike,
you are more experienced and educated in color management the me, I am still strugling to get an understanding of the matter.
So I just want to share my findings, fresh from today, and hear your thoughts.

The 11 has a built in "monitor" setup that brings its max white to around 50cd/m^2 so I guess it is not aimed for rec 709. More then that, with Cinespace profiler I got a profile with blacks around 0.05 cd/m^2 and very good decoupling error.

All that was done today so I have not tested it fully.
But the image I saw of Redlog material from the Scratch with a Lut based on this profile was very impressing.

Thanks.

Any comments?? I really need to know if I am going the wrong way.

Thanks.

 

[Loren White]

Hmph,
could you get pretty good results sending out bars via HDMI and using the blue only option that a MXO/MXO2 offers?

 

[Kujtim Ereqi]

You will, of course, need some sort of probe, and with a plasma monitor, you don't want a contact probe device, you want something that will sit a bit of distance from the surface of the monitor.

Hi Mike.. Thanks for all this very useful information you're adding to the Forum. My question is why I should not use a contact probe device with plasma monitors. If I use it what results should I expect?

If I don't get a probe can I make a calibration with a blue filter?

 

[John Tissavary]

I'm not Mike, but I'll try to respond here...

Plasma displays have (for lack of a better description) swirly, unstable pixels. Looks stable from a distance, but if you put your eye right up to the panel you'll see what I'm talking about.

A contact probe with a small aperture like the i1 display will give different readings each time it samples a pixel. Therefore it is necessary to sample the color and luminance from a distance to get accurate, useful readings.

Examples of non-contact probes are x-rite Hubble, Konica-Minolta CP-200, Orb-Optronix SP100, Photo Research PR-655, etc...

All of the devices I've listed are extremely accurate and useful for profiling plasma displays as well as projectors.


cheers,

JT

 

[Kujtim Ereqi]

Thanks John. That's quite clear for me now.

So, it seems that I definitely need a non contact probe for calibrating plasma monitors. But those probes are much more expensive than the Panasonic plasma 11 pro series itself. One of the reasons made me think buying that monitor - besides its accuracy and size -, is its price, which is quite affordable for me at the moment. So there is no way for me to go for a non contact probe for the moment.
Also getting a proffesional guy to make the calibration for me, is almost impossible where I live.

So.. What are the other alternatives to acceptably calibrate this monitor. And by acceptable I mean a reliable calibration not a perfect one.

P.s. I'm planning to go for Black Magic Ultrascope. I think that will help me to be in the right track..

 

[M Most]

So.. What are the other alternatives to acceptably calibrate this monitor. And by acceptable I mean a reliable calibration not a perfect one.

P.s. I'm planning to go for Black Magic Ultrascope. I think that will help me to be in the right track..

Well, since it's already an HD video monitor (as opposed to a computer monitor), you can use some of the various consumer setup DVDs. There's one on BluRay that's pretty good ("Digital Video Esssentials: HD Basics"). The one thing you really can't get from these is color temperature (you really do need a probe for that), but for everything else, they're pretty good. I guess the question becomes are you doing work for yourself, or are you doing paid work for clients? If it's the former, the DVD setup disks should get you to a pretty good place. If it's the latter, well, you need to have proper tools in any business and the post business is no different. If you can't afford it, you can't do it. Simple. But there are a lot of ways to acquire something you don't necessarily need every day without laying out the full price for it up front. You might be able to rent one (either locally or not), you might find someone who's willing to lend one to you, or maybe some other arrangement. But in the end, if you're going to do something professionally, you need certain professional tools. The fact that a probe costs more than the monitor is irrelevant. High quality glass often costs more than the camera it's put in front of. The Red Rocket card costs more than most of the computers that will host it. A good microphone can cost more than the digital recorder it plugs into. The world is full of such things.

 

[Kujtim Ereqi]

Thanks Mike. Always your posts have been very useful and informative. As a matter of fact, it was your posts that made me think seriously buying a plasma. Before that I was planning to get a LCD monitor.

And certainly, I really do agree with you that - as you said- : "If you're going to do something professionally, you need certain professional tools".

What I had in mind, but did not point out in my post, was: If I can't afford a non-contact probe to professionaly calibrate a plasma monitor, maybe I should think again of the LCD monitor alternative, since contact probes are much affordable, even that plasmas in general are better than LCDs for Color Correction.

Do you think it's a good idea.