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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Moire & the RED-One ??

George D.

George D.

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Will there be an issue, any issue, with moire patterns showing up on RED-One footage?

It is a serious concern because we shoot a lot of macro of insects. Since insects have large, compound eyes with hundreds of honey-comb like facets covering them, if that should create moire patterns, it would ruin the shots. Diffusing the image in post, is NOT an option for us.

Cameras with CMOS shutters are considered notorious for this, and I just want to know if it COULD BE an issue with the RED-One in 2K, 3K, or 4K.

Thanks.
 
We use proper optical low pass filtering. That would mean it's highly unlikely that any issue would occur.

Graeme
 
i have seen moire on reds many times. this can happen with any camera, including film. the times that i have most commonly seen it are on close up shots of TV screens that are on. i have seen some when there are blinds on windows or the wrong wardrobe on talent.

for your macro shots, i would test a shot that you think may be troublesome and see for yourself.
 
Chris Parker said:
i have seen moire on reds many times. this can happen with any camera, including film. the times that i have most commonly seen it are on close up shots of TV screens that are on. i have seen some when there are blinds on windows or the wrong wardrobe on talent.
Click to expand...

I think you might be confusing the moire of the display system with moire of the cameras. Film cannot produce moire because the grain pattern is random. But you will see moire from the monitor you view it on. The same can be true with the Red One. Some shots that don't show moire at full rez can moire in 1080 or 720 or 480.

That being said, your advice is still spot on: test, test, test.
 
D Fuller said:
I think you might be confusing the moire of the display system with moire of the cameras. Film cannot produce moire because the grain pattern is random. But you will see moire from the monitor you view it on. The same can be true with the Red One. Some shots that don't show moire at full rez can moire in 1080 or 720 or 480.

That being said, your advice is still spot on: test, test, test.
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
Exactly what D Fuller said.
You need to take the display system into account because that is how people are going to VIEW the footage. It does no good to tell your client that the Red is "properly optically low-passed" and "will likely never moire" if the herringbone pattern on the actor's jacket will indeed moire at 1080. Best to do a quick test, preferably with a Rocket so you can view on a real TV screen and not a computer screen...
Good link, Woody.
I would say that moire on an insect's eye would not seem likely with Red, but I would test.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Any time you overlay two fixed optical patterns that are near the same spatial frequencies you will get moire.
 
HD Hildebrand said:
You also have to consider what you output and compress to. I have some aerial shots that look great in raw, but when outputting to certain compressions/codecs there is moire on some office tower windows.
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I've heard that it can be a problem to scale and compress at the same time (i.e. going out of Final Cut), and it's a good idea to output an uncompressed scaled video and then compress that in a second step.
 
I have dealt a lot with this moire issue. Many of the previous posts are correct a lot of it happens when the camera makes a damn near real time debayer and down sample... and some of it can be in the monitor you are viewing. I do a lot of high end skin care fashion shooting. I was getting crushed in the early builds with moire.

Here is what I have found from my testing testing testing: If you see an moire issue on set, record a bit of it and play it back! 70% of the time it will not be prevelant and it will not be there in post either with a good/full debayer and you are good to go.

I would love to hear others opinions/results with this.

Prost,
Rich
 
Rainer Fritz said:
In Playback Mode its a lot better, as not visible.... thx for the hint Rich....
Click to expand...

You Bet, It helps me and I want to spread the knowledge.

Prost,
Rich
 
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