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Modern motion lenses

Blair S. Paulsen

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There used to be pretty clear lines between cine/film, broadcast TV, general video and still photography. These days, not so much. More and more folks are turning to stills lenses (and even stills cameras with video capabilities) for creating motion content. One of the key ideas that led to RED, was the recognition that digital sensors for still cameras had finally gotten to the point that even pros were switching away from film capture. What if you could get a DSLR to go fast enough to do 24 or 30 frames per second for an extended period of time? That idea, Jim Jannard and a number of other technological shifts have blurred those lines.

Large (S35/APS-C and bigger) single CMOS sensor motion cameras have proliferated, 3 chip CCD video cameras are on their way out. Fortunately there are terrific lenses out there for shooting motion on these new cameras with precision build quality and great optics. Problem is, they are way to expensive to ROI for most owner/operators and for jobs that don't have the budget to rent the real deal people need alternatives. Which has led a stampede to lenses intended for the ginormous still photography market.

Premium quality (Canon L, Nikon G, etc) primes and zooms designed for shooting stills can often provide motion shooters with excellent options that offer less weight, less size and less cost. However, there are compromises: trickier focus pulls, breathing, zooms often not par focal, telescoping barrels, sample variance, durability, build quality, etc. Ultimately stills lenses were not designed for motion shooting requirements, just as traditional cine lenses were not designed for high mobility, owner/ops and solo shooting.

IMO the best combo of ergonomics, features, performance, etc for shooting motion content in a wide variety of situations is the good old B4 mount ENG/EFP zoom lens. Sadly they were designed for 3 smaller sensors. There are adapters but you give up a couple of stops and good luck resolving 4K (Zeiss Digi-zoom maybe?).

The Fujinon Cabrio 19-90 PL zoom is the first of what I hope will be a new generation of lensing options for the modern motion shooter. RED was working on a fixed 8:1 zoom for a Scarlet variant at one point, though that's long abandoned (at least as far as we know), but the concept has value. Looking at industry trends, it sure seems like the market for lenses designed for high resolution large single sensor motion cameras has grown to where enough units could be sold to make a viable business case.

This is my plea for the lens manufacturers to offer a broad range of zooms and primes designed for modern motion shooters across a spectrum of price points. Zoom servos, focus assist tech appropriate for motion, optical precision, build quality, image stabilization, look, cost and all the other usual metrics should delineate the marketplace easily enough. I maintain that a 10:1 zoom, T3.2, able to resolve 4K, under 10 pounds, operational characteristics similar to a B4 ENG lens could be brought to market for under $15,000 USD if the manufacturer had a reasonable expectation of being able to sell at least 10,000 of them worldwide. Who's in?

Cheers #19
 
i'm in. I really miss the ease of use of the ENG lens. Especially shooting one-man-band and pulling my own focus. And, not having to switch lenses in those kinds of situations. Also, I like having a servo zoom (I know, "zooms are bad", but sometimes it is nice to be able to slowly creep in or out during a shot to re-frame live.)
 
I think you are right. The Cabria represents a new breed of lenses and I think we will see these new lenses take over. Really it's just the second coming of the ENG servo lenses that were pretty incedible for one man operation.

Part of me wonders what one could do with a 24-70 canon L-zoom rehoused with built in speed booster and Cabrio servo motor. That would be like a 3lb 20-60mm f 2.0 lens (or something close to that). I think things are going to start changing in the lens area soon. I think Red might show us some things at NAB this year.
 
Cabrio lens isn't even close to the price tag mentioned. There is a good reason for it.
Broadcast lenses were not cheap either. And they were sold in thousands. I think you guys are dreaming if you looking for a quality servo zoom for under $30K.
Probably closer to 40K.
This is a tiny, tiny market with very high gear spec requirement. Hence the price.
6000, 10000 more cameras won't make a bit of difference....
 
I have high hopes for Canon in this area as they have the right expertise, including years of experience in all the traditional genres. So far their Cine prime series has struck me as the right track but overpriced.

The version 2 24-70 L zoom has some attractive aspects for this hybrid world, but not enough zoom range to be the everyday "kit" lens that I believe could sell in the kind of quantities that I suspect Canon would have to be able to forecast in order to justify development costs.

Because of the different physics of creating a lens for S35+ image circles vs 2/3" 3-chip video it may be problematic to make a zoom with a 10:1 range that is also lightweight and reasonably fast. That said, anything less than 7:1 starts to cut down usage scenarios which, IMO, is the wrong direction for a "utility" lens. I also think it has to be at least 20mm on the wide end to accommodate hand held operation as well as under 10 pounds. The casualty might be speed, but with the more sensitive sensors these days maybe T3.5 isn't such a killer anymore. I can accept the fact that if I want a really fast lens I might just have to pop on a prime or short ratio zoom for some shots.

I like short DOF for a lot of things, but sometimes its not the best choice, especially for docs, events, live feeds, etc. IF the Dragon gives us clean 1200 ISO images then T3.5 or even T4 becomes completely viable for a lot of situations.

Cheers - #19
 
I don't see a zoom like that being cheaper than $35-40k which is where the Cabrio is I believe. However size, weight, focal range and speed drastically shifted with the Cabrio. I think we will see more of this. It seems physically possible now.
 
Angenieux announced this unit coming at last NAB not sure where it stands (with all the other back orders I imagine).

Optimo servo unit, link

http://www.angenieux.com/zoom-lenses/index.php?txt=11

This peice would turn all the smaller Optimo's into a version of a hand held zoom-able system. It would still need lens changes to cover a range of FL options, but the DP Rouge are the very best zoom lenses made, and at 20k... a tremendous value.
 
As always you present a plausible arguement for your vison of things...

that said... and thinking about this

I like short DOF for a lot of things, but sometimes its not the best choice, especially for docs, events, live feeds, etc. IF the Dragon gives us clean 1200 ISO images then T3.5 or even T4 becomes completely viable for a lot of situations.

why don't we just wait for Red (or the next guy) to levarage the current cutting edge in senors into a S16 camera? Canon didn't have any problem making low cost s16 zooms that pretty much covered your needs (and that was ages ago). If we can shoot clean 6k at 2000asa then I feel it is time to see the return of s16. A super clean 1000asa 3k camera that we can use for rough and tumble shoots would be great? Also lets face it there is nobody exciting in this markert yet nearly 40 years of TV was shot on roughly that size imager?

just a thought?

M
 
As always you present a plausible arguement for your vison of things...

that said... and thinking about this



why don't we just wait for Red (or the next guy) to levarage the current cutting edge in senors into a S16 camera? Canon didn't have any problem making low cost s16 zooms that pretty much covered your needs (and that was ages ago). If we can shoot clean 6k at 2000asa then I feel it is time to see the return of s16. A super clean 1000asa 3k camera that we can use for rough and tumble shoots would be great? Also lets face it there is nobody exciting in this markert yet nearly 40 years of TV was shot on roughly that size imager?

just a thought?

M

I'd agree that a S16 size sensor would be great for doc work but I don't think that the canon s16 zooms were cheap. I think that the 11-160 zoom was around 20K and that was 20 years ago.
 
I have no problem with top quality zooms of this type selling for $40,000, just looking for a broader range of options. Right now there's a pretty big hole between the real deal zooms, many of which have excellent optical characteristics, butter smooth mechanics, etc and price tags to match and stills zooms with all their issues.

Five years ago there wasn't enough of a market so I understood why options were limited. Looking at what RED has become, what Sony, Canon, ARRI, etc are doing, is there really still not enough demand. Are my only options a motorcycle or a big pickup truck? Really?

Cheers - #19
 
It looks like the weather is getting better and gas is getting too expensive. Parking space is scarce.
And then there is the adrenaline rush.....Motorcycle it is :))
 
It looks like the weather is getting better and gas is getting too expensive. Parking space is scarce.
And then there is the adrenaline rush.....Motorcycle it is :))

It's a bitter cold 51 degrees this morning in SoCal, who wants to freeze their a$$ odd on a motorcycle today :)))

Cheers - #19
 
You don't ride Blair do you? -it's not about comfort....:)
BTW I just checked- It's 60 and sunny in Thousand Oaks- a beautiful day for a ride..:)
 
Blair- just to make sure- we ARE talking about lenses?!! :)
 
Joking aside, I'm just trying to prod the manufacturers to design lenses purpose built for shooting motion. Zooms with internal mechanics (motors/servos inside the barrel) with drive by wire control sited on handgrips that can be mounted where desired - delivered by Kate Upton...

Cheers - #19
 
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