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Mobile Flicker Box

Dominick Pietrzak

Dominick Pietrzak

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Hello! I am going to be working on a film this summer (shooting on Scarlet), and a lot of it will be lit with fire. I don't believe the fire itself will be enough to light the actors faces, so I'm going to need a light source. I've seen flicker boxes, but they all require power sources. This film is going to be shot in a forest, and I'm not sure if we'll have access to power sources unless we get a generator.

How would I be able to build a mobile flicker box, and what light would work best with it to recreate fire?

Also, how can I build a flicker box that CAN use a power source? Kind of hard to find info on it online. One that I could use with anywhere from a 650 - 1k light.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
You need a Magic Gadets Shadowmaker. up to 2 k per channel (3 channels), but you probably wouldn't need all that.
They work great. I usually used 300-650's for campfires.
You would need have appropriate power as each channel used needs its own circuit, I would suggest a Honda Eu 2000 (or 3000 if needed), they are quiet and very reliable.
 
Thanks for the info Jeff!

Looking at it now, I think we're going to need a generator and extra lighting. Not sure how I wanted to do it without. The Honda eu2000 seems like it's just what we need.

I'll probably have 2x300w flicker lights, a 650w fill, and a 2K for Key / mimicking moonlight or daylight. The eu2000 will handle a 2K, right? We will have to rent 2 of them to support all the lights.
 
Yes it should handle a 2k. You may want to think about a more efficient 575 or even 1200 HMI to simulate your moonlight (I Like to bounce them into a high, large white source (Griff or foamcore) and use the main light as a rim on the subjects and fill for the background) By the time you put some CTB on the 2k to a create moonlight effect you wont have much output and will be using a ton of power. Even a couple of 4x4 kinos up high would probably be a better than a 2k, IMO. Obviously I dont know how far away your subjects are from background. Careful not to override the flickering lights too much another key as it wont look real. I would try to make the flickering lights your key, and the bigger light(s) your rim and background light. There are lots of ways to go about the moonlight, but your best best would be to have a HMI or kinos for that. You can either run (4) kino 4x4s or (1) 2k off 1 eu2000. Good luck
 
Yes it should handle a 2k. You may want to think about a more efficient 575 or even 1200 HMI to simulate your moonlight (I Like to bounce them into a high, large white source (Griff or foamcore) and use the main light as a rim on the subjects and fill for the background) By the time you put some CTB on the 2k to a create moonlight effect you wont have much output and will be using a ton of power. Even a couple of 4x4 kinos up high would probably be a better than a 2k, IMO. Obviously I dont know how far away your subjects are from background. Careful not to override the flickering lights too much another key as it wont look real. I would try to make the flickering lights your key, and the bigger light(s) your rim and background light. There are lots of ways to go about the moonlight, but your best would be to have a HMI or kinos for that. You can either run (4) kino 4x4s or (1) 2k off 1 eu2000. I would def take the kinos Good luck
 
Sorry, I made a mistake before- the 2K was going to be the key when there was no flickering, flickering is going to be the key when there is a fire.

The Kinos are a great idea. Very true what you said about the 2K losing intensity. I think I could get away with 2 of the 4x4s. If I go with the Kinos, I'll only need one generator, right? I guess it would be better to have 2 just in case one breaks down.

How far away will the eu2000 have to be to not interfere with shooting?
 
I would recommend 2 in this case. I have 2 and if one of them is working the other usually is too. Usually have to try to get it away a bit 30 -40 ft, more if needed. Sometimes it helps to have your audio guy help you out with it. The exhaust noise can bounce off of objects, so one trick that works is to turn the exhaust direction in a circle until it sounds the best. It helps to hide it behind things or down a hill (etc). We have built sound blocks from furniture pads, but be sure to give it plenty of ventilation. The frequency of the gennies seem to be pretty easy to dial out if you have that capability. Be sure to get room tone. Also be sure to have the auto throttle OFF when shooting with the flicker box, as the genny adjusts to the amount of power needed, and if that power is fluctuation the genny may run at irregular speeds
 
Great, I think Eastern Effects has everything I'm going to need. I'll give 'em a call sometime soon to see what I can do.

Thanks for all of your help Jeff! I am going to come up with something to block the noise from the generators. Thanks for telling me about the throttle off. I will let you know if I have any more questions! If you've got any more tips feel free to post them :)
 
Thanks a lot for your info! It is a lot of reading but I will try to read at least some of it for now.

I was planning on running 2x 4x4 Kinos on one generator and 2x 300w Arris on the other. I think that should be fine, as they won't be overloaded. Am I right in thinking this? Not sure about the power kick back, is this going to be a problem with my setup?
 
Dominick,

David provides sound advice.

I can't speak to the EU2000i as I don't own one, but the EU3000i Handi runs the four bank Kino fine, and it's really not that much bigger, and the wheels are a nice addition.

Steve
 
Stephen Lovett said:
Dominick,

David provides sound advice.

I can't speak to the EU2000i as I don't own one, but the EU3000i Handi runs the four bank Kino fine, and it's really not that much bigger, and the wheels are a nice addition.

Steve
Click to expand...

The wheels definitely sound like a nice addition. Would make getting it around a lot easier.

David Miles said:
You'll be fine as long as you don't try to put your 2k on either of the generators as well. You would do better with one of those 7500W Honda EU6500s with transformer/distros. Those distros have a voltage boost built into them that enables you to run the generator from further away where it won't be heard yet provide full line level on set. They also combine the enhanced output of the EU6500 into a single 60Amp circuit so that you will be able to run all your lights at once, including your 2k. If you want to save some money, you can take the old school approach to a fire effect that doesn't require renting a Shadowmaker. What you do is cut strips of red, orange, and yellow gel. Tape them together with clear jaylar packing tape, add some thin strips of 1" black masking tape, and then wave the sheet of gel strips and tape in front of the light. Not only do you get a flicker of the light output, but you also get slight changes in the color temperature (if you go easy on the red), which IMO looks more realistic.

David Miles
Click to expand...

I scrapped the 2K for 2x Kinos. They are going to be a better option over the 2K. Good point on the larger generator. Will I run into a problem by having 50 foot extension cords coming from the eu2000 or eu3000 Hondas?

And I think I will try to go with the Shadowmaker. The entire movie is mostly lit by fire so it will make shooting a lot easier. Excellent idea though for when I'm doing just one scene or something.

Thanks for the replies!
 
Well, I've learned that the production team for the project which I have been preparing this for, has decided to scrap the fire. Haha.

Either way, this is still very good information to know. So I know that if the generator has to be far away, I am much better going with the eu6500is. The eu2000is seemed great but I can definitely see why it wouldn't be the best idea.

Thank you everyone for the help!
 
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