Misc. Discussion cut out of M-X Reel thread

[Rick Burnett]

My personal opinion is that the Scarlet is going to absolutely change the Indie film world and send a lot of other camera companies scrambling. Well, they may just be scrambling already now! If it lives up to most of the specifications provided to us, all I can say is when they are released, it will probably be VERY QUIET on these boards as everyone is going to be away from their computers filming everything and anything. Like I mentioned before, people will be following the "New Technology Checklist", filming:

[ ] Waterfalls / Dams
[ ] Carnivals
[ ] Motocross / Racing
[ ] Girlfriends in the park
[ ] Mock commercials

 

[Ian G. Thompson]

5D Mark II/7D (as same as Scarlet will do as well too) has come to serve the art and the artists, not the industry standards or the usual establishment of a few

Amen to that!!

 

[Dan Kanes]

This is why on a pro shoot that matters, only a fool would use a DLSR if he/she had any choice at all- sorry but true.

:spam:

Hmm let's see... Would I rather
A. shoot something where I get paid $600/day with my 7D kit, and make it look good.

B. Shoot something where I get paid $300/day and the client rents a Sony EX1/EX3 and a Letus or other DOF adapter for $300 and uses my Zeiss Primes...and still end up with an image that's softer than the 7D is capable of in the right hands. Yes, you heard it. You are NEVER going to get a sharper image on a DOF adapter than you will without one because you're shooting off a ground glass or plastic disc. I can't believe people still have this argument. Now I will acknowledge any naked 1/2", 1/3" or 2/3" sensor camera will produce a sharper "broadcast" image, but I can almost guarantee the average person will see a 7D image that is well lit as having more "mojo." And believe it or not, I've done projection tests to non-technical people just to see what they'd think.This is what I hate about the broadcast mindset. I'm sorry but the word "broadcast" to me usually means sterile, banal. anal-retentive, designed by committee crap. My apologies to anyone who works in broadcast for a living, but it's generally not what I would consider artful.(there are exceptions) It is however strictly technical, which I can respect.

C. Work for free so that the client can rent a Red One package and still use my free lenses.

D. Let the job go to some jackass willing to work for $200/day with a red package who just moved to LA from (insert midwestern town here). Oh and they do editing and 'color correction' for free too.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to take option A until more clients are ready to pay my day rate and a proper rental or until I have a better camera in my hands (phoning Red... ring ring hello)

This is by no means letting Canon off the hook.

They had an opportunity and they squandered it deeply.

The Canon 1DIV is a pathetic example of incremental upgrades. They could have easily thrown a better downscaling chip in it that allowed for shooting tiff or sraw sequences at 24 or 25fps and had one of the most amazing simple motion picture and sports-shooting still cameras of all time.

This is what makes the 7D the golden child of SLR video FOR NOW. I can easily get high iso videos from it after using noise ninja or neat video on the footage that compare with the 1DIV. The pixel density might be a little less and there may be slightly less diffraction, but the 1D4's high iso video is merely a bit of noise-reduction sorcery in camera.

 

[k.wasley]

Shane Hurlbut ASC (DoP of terminator salvation etc) is currently shooting an untitled US navy seals feature film for the big screen on 5D and 1D's. I'd be interested to know how he is getting round the limitations of the camera. Still, impressive that a professional DoP is shooting a feature project on these cameras. He has a blog that is documenting the process at

http://hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/

Apparently in February he will be releasing the results of a host of tests with the 7d/5d/1d vs film. Testing includes assesment of all different lenses and under all different lighting conditions. Blue screen, Green screen and taking it all the way to a film out.

Thoughts?

 

[Brian Matheson]

First off guys, thanks for all the info and thoughts on the RED, 5D, and EX cameras. Please allow me to give the perspective of someone who generally works at the lower end of the video production food-chain.

Like most people working in corporate videos I am extremely excited about the upcoming release of the Scarlet cameras and the opportunities it will provide for shooting images I can only dream about right now. That said, my current work on the Sony EX cameras and Canon 5D is something I take extremely seriously and approach with every bit the professionalism and dedication that anyone else on this forum would bring to their productions.

On this thread some posts pointing out the limitations of these cameras have strayed into suggesting that my clients should simply shrug and say 'well it looks crap but for the price we paid what else could we expect?'. This is just offensive, arrogant and ill-informed.

Very few productions have unlimited resources and I like every filmmaker or videographer out there have to take the limitations of my productions and produce the best work possible within those boundaries. The aim is always to produce something which defies those limits - an idea which in-fact seems to be part of the RED ethos. For me this means recognizing the end distribution formats of my work, identifying the best workflow, and putting the limited resources I have to best use. It doesn't mean I shoot out of focus, soft, washed out images, don't bother grading my images, or cut any corners either in workflow or in my approach to the work.

My clients are not aware of, well, anything remotely technical. It isn't their job to understand or care about codecs, resolutions or formats. While my clients technical demands may be far lower than those faced by most people on this forum it doesn't mean I accept anything less than the best possible result from my shoots. Of course not every videographer takes this approach (thank god or I wouldn't get so much repeat business from clients) but that has nothing to do with the cameras, just the users.

Jim's post about Steven Soderbergh shooting Che on the prototype RED ONE (and watching the criterion feature on the production) provides a perfect illustration of what I mean. Cameras have limitations, and the 5D certainly has it's fair share, but this shouldn't define the filmmaker's ambition. Like most people working in the corporate video arena I can't wait until Scarlet washes away many of these limitations but my aim is to produce work so good in the meantime that my clients don't even notice when I make the switch. Maybe the Scarlet will be so good that they will still be stunned with the results, I dunno, but the assertion in this thread that because I use a 5D just now that I am any less professional in my approach than someone using a RED ONE is just wrong.

I amn't trying to pick a fight with anyone, and I really do appreciate the dedication shown by so many people to posting here - I learn something every time I visit. All I am saying is that it is very easy to forget when working on productions with relatively large budgets that the majority of people involved in video production don't have that luxury - but it doesn't mean we care any less. If that were the case Jim would have to adjust his sales projections for the Scarlet somewhat.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge so generously.