minimum requirements for a real movie

[Humberto Rivera]

“Good Luck” on your script, everything starts with that! Where you shoot, what you shoot, what the character say, how much it’s going to cost, you’re shooting schedule, well just about everything, first look toward you’re script!

Humberto Rivera

 

[Joe G.]

I take it that you're the writer/director?

You need an experienced Assistant Director who knows how to break down the script and help make all the setup and location choices that will determine what else you might need.

Should you shoot action sequences with multiple cameras?

Are green/blue screen CGI effects needed? (and an experienced VFX Supervisor would be nice)

All the while, get that script sent out for feedback and an analysis of its weaknesses.

If slow motion is a necessity, maybe renting a Phantom or an Epic for a day is an option.

If there is a long continuous sequence, maybe you need a Steadicam and operator.

Maybe you need to rent a crane to get those high shots.

Best would be an AD or line producer who has done this a hundred times to come in and figure out what you're really looking at day by day of shooting.

 

[Connor Hair]

Hi Adrian,

I sent you a PM about the film and I might be able to answer questions you have about equipment with a little more information on the setups you are looking at.

 

[Jason DeSimone]

EPIC/Scarlet must have it.
Rest... If you are in NYC, you are welcome to my studio and play with gears...
B and H is next door to me... Buy it.. test it (thats how I built my'self for this industry and decided to dropped out from NYU), if you don't like it Simply return It..

Kwan is a great guy to work with here in town, should you need any help on the production end I have a bunch of resources and have of late been working in the low budget SAG world. PM me if you'd like to swap some links and perhaps talk about the realistic costs of putting together a proper film production.

Congrats and much success on the project!

 

[adrian vedder]

Again people, thanks a lot. I absolutely came to the right place. Got a few pms that I'll reply specifically. However, a few more things about the project, just in case anyone else wants to throw their 2 cents...

I have a good script (well I think so since I made it), otherwise I would have never gotten the people with the money interested.

We start preproduction around march. I'm trying to finish the project by then so we can have the actual money and start working. Right now I'm still doing my research. I need to have a step by step budget by then, explaining what will be spent in what (which is why this thread is so useful in so many ways)

Some of you have suggested (via pm or here) that I could work somewhere else, not exactly here in mexico. It has to be done here for a number of reasons: 1. The movie involves the local soccer team and their stadium. 2. Most of the crew and actors are from here. 3. We can call in a LOT of favors (free locations, people who will work for free, we're connected with the goverment so we can have some policemen while we're on the streets and get the permits, hell, even free food, etc.)

The movie requiers not that many vfx or cgi, even the green screen will be very limited. Most of it is real stuff as it happens.

Saving the stadium shot, there's no big scenes, but there are a LOT of outdoors (think of a training soccer camp, mountains, streets).

There's a bunch of interiors too, but always on location, no sets (to keep the budget down). Big houses, a bus, a church, dressing rooms, etc)

If I had the chance, I would go for a Quantum of Solace kind of look. If you think about it, everything looks pretty in that movie, yet it still has a gritty feeling to it. And I think of that movie cause it has a lot of outdoors. Also I believe they used a red.

There will be a lot of steadycam shots involved.

And I think that's it. I'd like to thank Matt and Alex specially cause I'm sure they took at least a few minutes putting that list together.

Now, a red specific question: PL lenses vs regular canon? I know you can use both with the scarlet, but i believe the epic only uses primes. If so... how much of a difference is it? Not pricewise, but picture quality related.

And I do feel like I owe everyone around here. So feel free to ask me about... I don't know... piñatas?? tacos?? tequila brands?? (I actually live an hour away from the actual tequila region).

To everyone who pm'd me: I will reply with specifics. I promise.

 

[adrian vedder]

EPIC/Scarlet must have it.
Rest... If you are in NYC, you are welcome to my studio and play with gears...
B and H is next door to me... Buy it.. test it (thats how I built my'self for this industry and decided to dropped out from NYU), if you don't like it Simply return It..

Kwan, thank you very much! If I do show up in NYC, I'll make sure to stop by!

 

[adrian vedder]

Hi Adrian,
very interesting thread you just started. In this forum are a lot of people who can help you, but I think you should be more specific about your needs. I understood you have to buy all the stuff. Where does it start, where does it ends? Camera, lenses, light only, or grip and all the rest too? Tripods, steadicam, dolly, crane and so on? What kind of picture do you realize? Does it include a lot of action/special effects, green screen studio work?
I´m sure some more facts would help to get more answers. One more idea about it, go to RogerDeakins website and ask in his forum for help too. I´m sure Roger Deakins will give you some good tips too (But don´t go for Alexa!) Epic or Scarlet are for sure your tools.
Just one little tip: Invest in good cinema lenses. They will hold their value for future projects.
Cheers
Marc

Marc thank you! It does involve everything that the photo department could need. However, a few of those things (a crane, c-stands, grip and stuff) I could rent here in town cause they're kinda expensive and I belive the money would be better spent in something else.

I'll make sure to go to RogerDeakins and ask these same things. I also plan on doing it at DVinfo

Now, I wouldn't use an Alexa (it's too expensive), but, if this wasn't a red forum, would any of you dare to use a sony? I ask mostly cause I really, REALLY love my EX1r, I feel it does so much for the money I gave for it.

 

[adrian vedder]

I can't give advice on purchases ... but I like to think about the money side in the staging of scenes, and the different costs for different setups (i.e. coverage shots, shooting with masters, car shots ... etc). Anyway the book I think is real good for this is "Film Directing Cinematic Motion, 2nd Edition: A Workshop for Staging Scenes"

Patrick, thanks for the advice! I'll look for that in amazon right now.

 

[adrian vedder]

Oh and just as a reference, here's what I usually do:

http://vimeo.com/30498440

It's a super low budget tv spot. Done by a two people crew from the script to the final editing. So... yeah, this is kinda off my league. But at the same time, pinky promise, I never took a single lesson. I've taught myself doing stuff like what I'm doing here.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Again people, thanks a lot. I absolutely came to the right place. Got a few pms that I'll reply specifically. However, a few more things about the project, just in case anyone else wants to throw their 2 cents...

I have a good script (well I think so since I made it), otherwise I would have never gotten the people with the money interested.

We start preproduction around march. I'm trying to finish the project by then so we can have the actual money and start working. Right now I'm still doing my research. I need to have a step by step budget by then, explaining what will be spent in what (which is why this thread is so useful in so many ways)

Some of you have suggested (via pm or here) that I could work somewhere else, not exactly here in mexico. It has to be done here for a number of reasons: 1. The movie involves the local soccer team and their stadium. 2. Most of the crew and actors are from here. 3. We can call in a LOT of favors (free locations, people who will work for free, we're connected with the goverment so we can have some policemen while we're on the streets and get the permits, hell, even free food, etc.)

The movie requiers not that many vfx or cgi, even the green screen will be very limited. Most of it is real stuff as it happens.

Saving the stadium shot, there's no big scenes, but there are a LOT of outdoors (think of a training soccer camp, mountains, streets).

There's a bunch of interiors too, but always on location, no sets (to keep the budget down). Big houses, a bus, a church, dressing rooms, etc)

If I had the chance, I would go for a Quantum of Solace kind of look. If you think about it, everything looks pretty in that movie, yet it still has a gritty feeling to it. And I think of that movie cause it has a lot of outdoors. Also I believe they used a red.

There will be a lot of steadycam shots involved.

And I think that's it. I'd like to thank Matt and Alex specially cause I'm sure they took at least a few minutes putting that list together.

Now, a red specific question: PL lenses vs regular canon? I know you can use both with the scarlet, but i believe the epic only uses primes. If so... how much of a difference is it? Not pricewise, but picture quality related.

And I do feel like I owe everyone around here. So feel free to ask me about... I don't know... piñatas?? tacos?? tequila brands?? (I actually live an hour away from the actual tequila region).

To everyone who pm'd me: I will reply with specifics. I promise.

Hey Adrian,
You can use any pl or canon mount lenses (with the canon mount) primes or zooms. You are not limited in any way. As for the EX1, its a great camera, but if you want future proof 4k+ is the way to go. If someone is putting that much money in a film they want to know you have the gear to get the job done. Plus if you invest in RED im sure your rentals will be steady or at least more than renting out an EX1. As for the look that is half the look you shoot on set and the colorist finishes the look for the desired feeling. With RAW you are able to get unlimited choices in color correction if your material is shot correctly. This is one of the reasons why the Red Raw workflow is so desirable. Trust me, when you see a Red Raw image, you wont ever want to shoot anything else. I loved my JVC GY-HD200 and thought it was amazing. Then came the first RED shoot and I cant even believe I liked the JVC. Red also gives upgrade options and incentives to owners unlike any other company. For example I bought a JVC GY HD110 which was then replaced by the 200 so I then had to sell my camera and buy a whole new "upgraded" model. RED does things differently, which is why the EPIC/Scarlet are built to be modular and the brain (sensor) is upgradeable so you will never have to buy a new camera body. Hope this helps.

 

[Bob Torrance]

Adrian

For features you will want PL mount lenses. You can always add a canon mount later. Scarlet and Epic will take either mount. If you went Sony you have the choice of the F65 ($100,000 to start) or the f3 but that limits you to 1080 and by the time you add a high quality s-log recorder and s-log option you will have spent more than a Scarlet. Now if you are shooting soccer you might need multiple cameras. Lots of things to think about. Sounds like fun.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I would also add a microdolly to your gear. its my favourite dolly for portability and lightweight.
Also you could either look at the Microdolly Jib or to a kessler crane for your jib- If you have a stadium shot (if you can fill it, of course) a Jib shot always looks impressive.
For steadicam I always liked Glidecam's products- they are good value for money and well crafted. Have a smooth shooter setup for more than 5 years, without any issues.

I also second the suggestion of buying an Epic vs a Scarlet. The Slow motion capabilities (as long as you don't abuse it) and HDRX will give you more creative possibilities and add to the production value of your film.

Don't forget to invest in redundancy: Backups for your masters, as well as Recording Media- get about 4x 2256GB cards which are a the best bang for the buck in the Red Store. If you can, raise it to 8x 256 and you will not have to think about backup until the end of the day of shooting.

If going Epic/Scarlet get Redvolts- about 7 redvolts and 4x travel chargers. They will prove essential for stabilizer work, low profile shooting and Jib shots (If you go with leightweight steadicams and Jibs, which are much more value for money). However, do get the "Bricks" for tripod and shoulder mont shots. It actually helps to balance the camera for these situations.

I would get something like the Easyrig for Shoulder mount or handheld shots. It gives footage a very unique look and lets you put the camera at the center and not at your shoulder, which, if you are a tall person, gives a very TV newsish perspective to your handeld shot. I like to keep my shots centered at a bit bellow my neck, and the Easyrig allows than (and doesn't destroy your shoulders!)

Good luck on your film. I work in a place that seems, in terms of what the film industry goes, similar to yours. Can relate to your need to purchase. Hope this helps!

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Adrian, my opinion here is worth almost two cents, but would it not be wiser, given the background information that you've given us, to purchase two or maybe three RED ONEs instead of a Scarlet or EPIC?

Regarding lenses, I do have an opinion worth more than two cents, but that's only because I look at lens tests for still camera lenses (and I don't give a damn about the brand - show me the quality or shut the hell up). I have found that as far as wide-angles go, you need cinema lenses as far as I can tell. Sigma, Nikon, Canon etc. all make wide lenses which are shockingly bad compared to cinema lenses. The Tokina 11-16/2.8 is an exception - great from 14mm up (negligible distortion) and from f/4.0 down (tolerable light fall-off). It has 2px wide CA but supposedly it depends on the camera. For telephotos (75mm and up), you can get by without the best simply because there are fewer design compromises with longer focal lengths.

 

[axel ebermann]

Sorry guys - but I second that.

Giving somebody who wishes to purchase a new camera package the advise to buy a 4 year old camera
system that is on it's way out is not good investment advise.

Adrian, my opinion here is worth almost two cents, but would it not be wiser, given the background information that you've given us, to purchase two or maybe three RED ONEs instead of a Scarlet or EPIC?

Regarding lenses, I do have an opinion worth more than two cents, but that's only because I look at lens tests for still camera lenses (and I don't give a damn about the brand - show me the quality or shut the hell up). I have found that as far as wide-angles go, you need cinema lenses as far as I can tell. Sigma, Nikon, Canon etc. all make wide lenses which are shockingly bad compared to cinema lenses. The Tokina 11-16/2.8 is an exception - great from 14mm up (negligible distortion) and from f/4.0 down (tolerable light fall-off). It has 2px wide CA but supposedly it depends on the camera. For telephotos (75mm and up), you can get by without the best simply because there are fewer design compromises with longer focal lengths.

 

[adrian vedder]

yeah i'm kinda curious why Karim would suggest 3 red ones... care to elaborate Karim?

About the steadycam, I own a glidecam 4000 HD, but without the vest, so i really can only use it with a dsrl for longer than 10 seconds. I like it, but at the same time glidecam strikes me as a not so great brand, what do you guys think? A few other options have been bounced around. What do you guys think is the best steadycam for a lightweight camera?

Also, if this is going way too much off topic and the forum doesn't allow it, I'll just let it rest. I'm new here but I know that some forums like to keep it on topic, specially something as specific as this one

 

[Matt Ryan]

yeah i'm kinda curious why Karim would suggest 3 red ones... care to elaborate Karim?

About the steadycam, I own a glidecam 4000 HD, but without the vest, so i really can only use it with a dsrl for longer than 10 seconds. I like it, but at the same time glidecam strikes me as a not so great brand, what do you guys think? A few other options have been bounced around. What do you guys think is the best steadycam for a lightweight camera?

Also, if this is going way too much off topic and the forum doesn't allow it, I'll just let it rest. I'm new here but I know that some forums like to keep it on topic, specially something as specific as this one

He probably says the Red One because it can do higher frame rates, up to 120fps in 2k. Also he suggests multiple camera's because sports shoots are hard to match action with only one camera between shots. Shooting multiple camera's mean you get all your coverage at once and it all matches in the edit. I have a feeling this is what he means.

I agree though that if you are guying to buy as an investment an Epic will give you the most return since there are going to be so many more Scarlet's in the world than Epic's.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

He probably says the Red One because it can do higher frame rates, up to 120fps in 2k. Also he suggests multiple camera's because sports shoots are hard to match action with only one camera between shots. Shooting multiple camera's mean you get all your coverage at once and it all matches in the edit. I have a feeling this is what he means.

That's true - basically, redundancy never hurts. I suppose that three Scarlets are just as good - three new Scarlets and/or used ONEs are better than one EPIC.

A lot of people prefer the Scarlet mainly because it's a DSMC - the RED ONE is not. But the ONE can do up to 60fps at 3K, or 30fps at 4.5K. Scarlet cannot. If that doesn't matter, then perhaps the Scarlet is your money-melon.

 

[Matt Ryan]

yeah i'm kinda curious why Karim would suggest 3 red ones... care to elaborate Karim?

About the steadycam, I own a glidecam 4000 HD, but without the vest, so i really can only use it with a dsrl for longer than 10 seconds. I like it, but at the same time glidecam strikes me as a not so great brand, what do you guys think? A few other options have been bounced around. What do you guys think is the best steadycam for a lightweight camera?

Also, if this is going way too much off topic and the forum doesn't allow it, I'll just let it rest. I'm new here but I know that some forums like to keep it on topic, specially something as specific as this one

Glidecam's work but they are definitely not great. Even though the Epic/Scarlet are small they get heavy fast. Add on lenses, mattebox, wireless ff, v mount batteries, etc and the rig weighs 20+ pounds.

Axel and I both recommended this Action Products Stabilizer found here. The price is unmatched for the quality and build. It's a great unit and once the shoot is over you can rent it out. Several rental houses in LA have these models.