minimum requirements for a real movie

[adrian vedder]

So, super newbie here. So much I feel I need to insert a joke here for you guys to like me but I can't think of one.
Anyways, for strange reasons, I have the chance to make a small feature film with a very tiny budget. We have around 200k for the photo department. That includes camera and lights.
I've never worked in any feature films before, never been anywhere near a "real" production. I've done a lot of corporate videos, and I own a Sony EX1r and a few led lights, so basically I've worked with toys only. I've read a lot on this and other forums, but I'm just not really sure about what to do. Would a Scarlet be good enough? Do I need an epic? What lenses would you buy? lights?? What would happen if I record in say, a Sony F3? I know it takes a very long reply, but c'mon guys you're a bunch of very well informed guys and I'm a guy who wants to make things right.
What would you buy with that money?
Think of some few big spaces, a bunch of exterior shoots and a lot of interiors. No sets, everything has to be on a real place.
I can't rent the equipment since I'm in Mexico, plus I expect to keep using it after the production is done. It has to be bought.
Lastly, anyone knows a great DOP who could get the job done? we want to save money on everything, but we want to hire a guy in that deparment who can actually kick ass.
Thanks for your time!

 

[Matt Ryan]

So, super newbie here. So much I feel I need to insert a joke here for you guys to like me but I can't think of one.
Anyways, for strange reasons, I have the chance to make a small feature film with a very tiny budget. We have around 200k for the photo department. That includes camera and lights.
I've never worked in any feature films before, never been anywhere near a "real" production. I've done a lot of corporate videos, and I own a Sony EX1r and a few led lights, so basically I've worked with toys only. I've read a lot on this and other forums, but I'm just not really sure about what to do. Would a Scarlet be good enough? Do I need an epic? What lenses would you buy? lights?? What would happen if I record in say, a Sony F3? I know it takes a very long reply, but c'mon guys you're a bunch of very well informed guys and I'm a guy who wants to make things right.
What would you buy with that money?
Think of some few big spaces, a bunch of exterior shoots and a lot of interiors. No sets, everything has to be on a real place.
I can't rent the equipment since I'm in Mexico, plus I expect to keep using it after the production is done. It has to be bought.
Lastly, anyone knows a great DOP who could get the job done? we want to save money on everything, but we want to hire a guy in that deparment who can actually kick ass.
Thanks for your time!

Wow congrats on the job, I've tried everything and no one will give me 200k camera budget to shoot a film (Check out my $1,000 music video on my website "Symba-Winning"). I need to become friends with you. As to the question is the Scarlet good enough, short answer yes. Look up the Shot On Red page on Red.com and check out all the films shot on the Red One. This is basically the same camera in a smaller body (yes there are differences i know but im making it simple). Features are shot on all sorts of camera's ranging from consumer handycams to Epics and Alexas. As for types of lights it depends on the film itself (genre, look, emotion, locations, etc.). Usually for features you rent gear because it adds up fast. A full set of Master Primes will cost you over $300,000. Then you must maintain all the gear yourself. Also theres the question zooms or primes? Depending on how many setups in a day, look of the film, amount of light your working with, size of locations, etc. impact those decisions.
You could always hire a guy like me to shoot it. Check out my website. ( matthayslett.com). Hope this helps.

 

[Matt Ryan]

There is also the whole post production aspect to the film. What is your final delivery format? Red 4K is great for either a digital output and for a film scan. Hope these help a bit. I could go in more detail but that would take a really long time. Long story short is if you shoot Red you will be good as long as you can expose correctly. It definitely meets and exceeds "real feature" standards.

 

[Kwan Khan]

EPIC/Scarlet must have it.
Rest... If you are in NYC, you are welcome to my studio and play with gears...
B and H is next door to me... Buy it.. test it (thats how I built my'self for this industry and decided to dropped out from NYU), if you don't like it Simply return It..

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Hi, i would buy the scarlet if you dont need slo motion.
if not, rent everything!
you get the best lenses, best lights, best grip etc. for around 100 000k for a 20 day feature....(and that would be a bad deal)

put the rest of the budget back into other departments, hence put the money infront of the lens.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hi, i would buy the scarlet if you dont need slo motion.
if not, rent everything!
you get the best lenses, best lights, best grip etc. for around 100 000k for a 20 day feature....(and that would be a bad deal)

put the rest of the budget back into other departments, hence put the money infront of the lens.

Agreed. Add probably 40K extra aside for tests and pick up shots rental budget, though. But I would say rent, definitely if its just this one project that you want to make it shine. Put the rest of the money on a great DP, actors and anything else that stays in front of the camera. And PLAN everything. Get yourself a producer and an assistant producer to do all the bureaucracy- someone good and dependable for these jobs that are willing to take that load of the work from you- specially the paperwork. Don't go cheap on the make up and wardrobe departments, as well as on the set designer. It will really show at the end.

 

[Alan Rencher]

Spend your money wisely. I suggest hiring dept. heads who have experience and that can answer all these questions for you. Find a Good DP!

 

[axel ebermann]

Hey Adrian,

Here is what I would suggest:

Hire / collaborate with somebody who knows what he (or she) is doing in the tech department. Trying
to find out all the technical intricacies and problems that come with film production
will not only be likely to downgrade the quality of your film - it will also result in you
having a nightmare making this film - and this is not how it should be after all right ?

There are enough people out there who love movies. You will be surprised for how little
money they will work if they like the project. I, for example, shot two short with a film director
in Honduras and the collaboration turned out so well, that when he wanted to shoot a third short
I refused and told him I would provide the entire tech side as a co-producer if he has the cojones
to turn it into a feature instead.

If you work with seasoned pros it will not only make your life easier and cheaper at the end of the day -
but after you did a full feature with a true pro you will have gone through a free film school on top
of that

This DP / technical director - whatever you might call it - can also definitely help you
to compile a list / budget it you want to invest in equipment. But one that is comprehensive
and works for you.

For example the Scarlet is a fantastic low budget camera - but it comes with some challenges
for footage handling, conversions etc..

Film is a collaborative effort. Take advantage of that. You won't regret it.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR PROJECT !!!

So, super newbie here. So much I feel I need to insert a joke here for you guys to like me but I can't think of one.
Anyways, for strange reasons, I have the chance to make a small feature film with a very tiny budget. We have around 200k for the photo department. That includes camera and lights.
I've never worked in any feature films before, never been anywhere near a "real" production. I've done a lot of corporate videos, and I own a Sony EX1r and a few led lights, so basically I've worked with toys only. I've read a lot on this and other forums, but I'm just not really sure about what to do. Would a Scarlet be good enough? Do I need an epic? What lenses would you buy? lights?? What would happen if I record in say, a Sony F3? I know it takes a very long reply, but c'mon guys you're a bunch of very well informed guys and I'm a guy who wants to make things right.
What would you buy with that money?
Think of some few big spaces, a bunch of exterior shoots and a lot of interiors. No sets, everything has to be on a real place.
I can't rent the equipment since I'm in Mexico, plus I expect to keep using it after the production is done. It has to be bought.
Lastly, anyone knows a great DOP who could get the job done? we want to save money on everything, but we want to hire a guy in that deparment who can actually kick ass.
Thanks for your time!

 

[adrian vedder]

Wow, thanks everyone for the replies! So, a few more details:

First, I absolutely agree with Axel and Alan, what I need to do is hire people smarter than me. I believe that's the right thing to do not just in this case but pretty much always in life. And what better place to find that kind of people in this industry than here?

Second, I HAVE to buy the equipment. Why? The whole thing is mexican made and developed. I'd need to get everything from the states, and importing, insurance, etc, would add up fast. Also, I'm planning on keeping the equipment to do commercials and rent it here (i believe there would be a market since I can't find myself a company that does it. At least not goverment financed). Still, I could rent some extra lights here if needed. (I think I could find those)

And what I want to do is buy a flexible equipment that would be DOP proof, like, something good enough for any medium gig so to speak.

Now, editing, I would do a first cut myself in a mac pro then send it to a lab for proper color correction and overall tune up.

The movie would be released at least nation wide in mexico. (Mexican movies have really small budgets overall. I'm gathering like 800k for the whole thing and you could consider it a "big" movie in this country. Most expensive mexican movie ever was about 4 million usd).

So I would like to rephrase:

If you didn't have any equipment, and your grandma gave you 200k for christmas... what would you get? (and don't tell me bitches... we'd all get bitches)

 

[Marc Berger]

Hi Adrian,
very interesting thread you just started. In this forum are a lot of people who can help you, but I think you should be more specific about your needs. I understood you have to buy all the stuff. Where does it start, where does it ends? Camera, lenses, light only, or grip and all the rest too? Tripods, steadicam, dolly, crane and so on? What kind of picture do you realize? Does it include a lot of action/special effects, green screen studio work?
I´m sure some more facts would help to get more answers. One more idea about it, go to RogerDeakins website and ask in his forum for help too. I´m sure Roger Deakins will give you some good tips too (But don´t go for Alexa!) Epic or Scarlet are for sure your tools.
Just one little tip: Invest in good cinema lenses. They will hold their value for future projects.
Cheers
Marc

 

[PatrickFaith]

I can't give advice on purchases ... but I like to think about the money side in the staging of scenes, and the different costs for different setups (i.e. coverage shots, shooting with masters, car shots ... etc). Anyway the book I think is real good for this is "Film Directing Cinematic Motion, 2nd Edition: A Workshop for Staging Scenes"

 

[Matt Ryan]

-Red Epic X w/ accessories (Side handle, evf, redmote, Viewfactor or wooden camera top and bottom plate, Viewfactor v mount adapter, 8 v mount batteries w/ chargers, -19mm rods 12 & 18 inches, top 8 inch rods)
-Mantis hand held rig
-Red Pro Primes (18-300mm) These are great lenses and you cant beat the price.
-Filters ( IRND's from .6-1.5, a Polarizer, A couple grad ND's say .9-1.2, If your going for an intimate look maybe some soft fx or black/white pro mist.)
-Arri Mattebox & Follow Focus (if you want to save money Redrock Mattebox and Arri follow focus)
-If you need a wireless ff RT Motion (save your money by getting this model over a bartech or preston)
-Get a Small HD DP6 or TV Logic on board monitor for the AC.
-If you dont have an on set Directors monitor I suggest the JVC DT line of monitors (Native 1080p)
-Oconnor 2060 and Mitchell sticks (plus high hat)
-Slider dolly for small spaces
-If needed the Mathews car mount from film tools
-If a steadicam is needed get it from Actionproducts
-Lights, assortment of hmi's( 1.2 k and 575), kino's (3 0r 4 4ft 4 banks and 2 2ft 2 banks), led panel (2x Litepanels 1x1 Spot), a couple fresnel's (Arri kit) & open faces (stands for each, ceiling clamps, wall spreaders, gels, diffusion), your also going to need more grip stuff but are you asking about those too? (C stands, flags, 12x silks/blackouts, bounce boards, gels, diffusion, high rollers, combo stands, platypus clamps, a generator?)
These are all products that will last forever, they aren't cheap but they are well built.
-Get at least 4 256gb Red Mags and a couple 128gb mags
-Make sure to have plenty of hard drives to properly backup the footage.

If you are planning on purchasing everything your going to have to make a decision on what to splurge on and when to save your money cause it adds up fast.

 

[rod bradley]

I'm assuming you already have a great screenplay. All the technical finesse in the world doesn't do much for a screenplay that isn't whole and inspiring to actors and crew alike. A great writer before a great everything else. Lots of other good advise already offered -- I'd especially second getting a good working line producer, production manager.

 

[axel ebermann]

200k....

camera:

- scarlet & support system, rods, cage, baseplate etc.
- bomb evf
- 4 x 256gb SSD, download station
- O'Connor matte box
- set of red pro primes
- follow focus unit (not sure which one is the best bang for the buck right now)
- sachtler or O'Conner tripod
- baby legs
- hihat
- portable 9' monitor HD, such as manhattan
- filterset: NDs, ND soft grads, polarizer, 1/4 soft FX, 1/4 black promist
- tons of rdicolously expensive cables

computer / DIT

12 core Mac pro with Red Rocket card
Raid drive array
30' apple display
grading monitor
backup power supply

lighting

2 x 1.8k HMI ARRI PAR
1 x 5.75 HMI Arri Par
2 x kinoflo 4 banks
2 x smaller kinoflo units
3 x 150 W arri fresnel
3 x 650 arri fresnel
1 x litepanels mini

grip:

15 C-stands
flagset small
glagset large
netset small
netset large
scrimjim large with nets, silk, diffusion
12x12 butterfly with silk & stands
25 sand bags
20 stingers (extension cables)
various gels as set, duvetyne
camtram mini dolly
e sets of apple boxes

actioncam steadicam



All right, that should take care of your 200k - happy shopping....

Wow, thanks everyone for the replies! So, a few more details:

First, I absolutely agree with Axel and Alan, what I need to do is hire people smarter than me. I believe that's the right thing to do not just in this case but pretty much always in life. And what better place to find that kind of people in this industry than here?

Second, I HAVE to buy the equipment. Why? The whole thing is mexican made and developed. I'd need to get everything from the states, and importing, insurance, etc, would add up fast. Also, I'm planning on keeping the equipment to do commercials and rent it here (i believe there would be a market since I can't find myself a company that does it. At least not goverment financed). Still, I could rent some extra lights here if needed. (I think I could find those)

And what I want to do is buy a flexible equipment that would be DOP proof, like, something good enough for any medium gig so to speak.

Now, editing, I would do a first cut myself in a mac pro then send it to a lab for proper color correction and overall tune up.

The movie would be released at least nation wide in mexico. (Mexican movies have really small budgets overall. I'm gathering like 800k for the whole thing and you could consider it a "big" movie in this country. Most expensive mexican movie ever was about 4 million usd).

So I would like to rephrase:

If you didn't have any equipment, and your grandma gave you 200k for christmas... what would you get? (and don't tell me bitches... we'd all get bitches)

 

[Matt Ryan]

If you do fashion ads or commercials you'll more often than not need slow motion shots. You will most likely be shooting 48fps-60fps for those types of shots so an Epic would be the way to go. Scarlet is limited with its frame rates. Also HDRx is awesome to use for certain situations so if that is needed go Epic. Scarlet is an awesome camera but its also the little sibling to the Epic.

Also dont forget equipment insurance!

 

[Bob Torrance]

Axels' list is pretty good with Matts point about slow mo a good one. Bet that PM box is filling up.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Axels' list is pretty good with Matts point about slow mo a good one. Bet that PM box is filling up.

Our lists are almost identical even down to the steadicam. Its funny how we think the same. I wonder if we all did a blind equipment list how close we would all be gear wise.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Hi, i would buy the scarlet if you dont need slo motion.
if not, rent everything!
you get the best lenses, best lights, best grip etc. for around 100 000k for a 20 day feature....(and that would be a bad deal)

put the rest of the budget back into other departments, hence put the money infront of the lens.

or buy a red one mx which is the same sensor as epic/scarlet.. but shoots 4.5k vs scarlets 4k and red one has the high speed scarlet doesn't

 

[Matt Ryan]

or buy a red one mx which is the same sensor as epic/scarlet.. but shoots 4.5k vs scarlets 4k and red one has the high speed scarlet doesn't

The only downside is if hes planning on renting gear more clients will request a Epic/Scarlet than a Red One. Not that the Scarlet is better but because it is new and current and thats what most people want. The new models are also smaller and lighter.

 

[George Butterfield]

we want to save money on everything

Use your EX1 to make a direct to DVD or Blu-Ray 90 minute film. After that you will know a lot. The first thing is a good script. First get a good script. Or naked women.