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Milo Motion Control and RED

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Victor Trichkov

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Hello everybody,
we have a big commercial coming our way in a week. The spot is very CG and VFX heavy and use of motion control rig (Milo) will be involved. We don't have any experience shooting on motion control with our RED camera and I am looking for some help how to connect and interface the camera with the "Milo". I guess the minimum control needed is the start/stop function controlled by the rig. If anybody has any experience on this I will be very grateful to hear from him. We have only a week for preparation so I will wait for your fast input. Thanks in advance

Victor
 
Get in touch with the Facility wich provides the Milo, they sure can help you. Main thing is that you get the shutter syncronized to the movement. I think it should be possible via Genlock. I´d use a bloop light as well to find the sync point on your moves.

best regards
Manuel
 
If you need the Motion Control rig to do multiple passes I believe you might be out of luck using a RED camera. Last time I prepped a shoot with the Milo it would only sync to 1080P(sf) output from an electronic camera, and that is not coming out of the RED on capture, only on playback. You could of course not sync the RED camera, but I don't know if that would give you enough precision for what you are trying to do.

There might be other ways of making this work. Maybe the Milo can 'drive' the RED through the Genlock? I'm just a DP so your Motion Control Tech will most likely know a ton more than I do.

Cheers, Wolf
 
dmacleod said:
As far as I know, all you need is the bloop light for sycnching.

The rig is going to repeat itself each time no matter what camera is on it.

It is not necessary for the rig to "talk" to the camera.
Click to expand...

It is if you want complete repeatability.
 
This is me and Milo.

Pm me for help.

Tek

4234_1216452268.jpg
 
Hi tekcin,

Any chance you could please share with the rest of us? I am very curious to know what works with the RED One on a Milo and what needs improvements.

Cheers, Wolf
 
Yes for total accuracy the rig needs to start each time at the same point of the scan of the imager.

It is possible to convert p to psf.
I would suggest an end to end test.



Mike Brennan
(former moco owner)
 
Hi Chaps,

I believe Mark Roberts of MRMC used milo/red combo in UK google for site.

Mike Costelloe
 
Victor023 said:
Hello everybody,
we have a big commercial coming our way in a week. The spot is very CG and VFX heavy and use of motion control rig (Milo) will be involved. We don't have any experience shooting on motion control with our RED camera and I am looking for some help how to connect and interface the camera with the "Milo". I guess the minimum control needed is the start/stop function controlled by the rig. If anybody has any experience on this I will be very grateful to hear from him. We have only a week for preparation so I will wait for your fast input. Thanks in advance

Victor
Click to expand...

You will most likely want to interface the GPI port to for single frame print from FLAIR. You can also use start/stop GPI, but you may not be able to achieve frame-level repeatability.

BTW, You can also do focus pulling.

Good luck with your shoot.
 
Hi,

Shutter sync with motion control is very important with multi passes where the rig is moving fast & especially if the multi passes are at different camera speeds. If you only have a slow camera move or just a single pass is used it should be fixable in post. There is always quite a bit of lining up to do to make the 3D match the motion control. Using a rig that is well maintained and one with very accurate kinematics will save many days in post.

Most Milo motion control rigs use a Fries Mitchell cameras with the Flair software directly controlling the camera motor, there is a good reason for this.

Stephen
 
mmost said:
It is if you want complete repeatability.
Click to expand...

I spoke with our Milo tech here in Toronto a couple of months ago and asked these same questions.

He said they had done tests with the RED and they had no issues. Basically started the camera, then started the move with bloop light, then cut the camera.

Complete repeatability is what the RIG will do. As long as the camera is rolling before the programmed move starts and cuts after the program stops, it becomes an issue of sycnhing each shot in the edit. Which (like in film) we do with the bloop light.

Am I missing something?

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
I
Am I missing something?

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...

Hi Dylan,

If the camera was at 90 degrees to the track and moving at 2.4 meters a second, (10cm a frame) then an error of upto 5cm (about 2 inches) could be a big issue. That wont work for a Matte LOL.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Dylan,

If the camera was at 90 degrees to the track and moving at 2.4 meters a second, (10cm a frame) then an error of upto 5cm (about 2 inches) could be a big issue. That wont work for a Matte LOL.

Stephen
Click to expand...

This wouldn't be a problem in the scenario I described because the MILO would repeat the exact move and the camera would be rolling to record it?

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
This wouldn't be a problem in the scenario I described because the MILO would repeat the exact move and the camera would be rolling to record it?

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...

Hi,

That is exactly the problem, the shutter needs to sync with the frames of the Milo, there is a very good reason why the software supports a shutter pulse! The Milo will also slightly adjust speed during a move to maintain shutter sync if needed, however you can allow moves to continue when sync is lost.

I don't know if Tony Willis is still involved with that Milo, but he could explain to you face to face.

Stephen
 
dmacleod said:
Complete repeatability is what the RIG will do. As long as the camera is rolling before the programmed move starts and cuts after the program stops, it becomes an issue of sycnhing each shot in the edit. Which (like in film) we do with the bloop light.

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmacleod.com
Click to expand...

Hi Dylan,

If the rig is using a Fries Mitchell & MRMC motor the bloop light just lights, it's not responsible in any way for the camera / rig sync. With a 435 the shutter will be synced with the Flair Software.

I had discussions with Assaff Rawner the MD at MRMC about 8 years ago on this subject when using an F900.

Stephen
 
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