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Matte Box and FF Feedback

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Gursimran Dhillon

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Hi All,

Please provide feed back on the Red Rock Micro Mattebox or please recommended another brand you have experience with in the same price range.

Also, looking to buy either Red Rock FF V2 or Cinevate Durus. Any feedback on either of them?

Thanks in advance
 
There are lots of threads on this if you search here.

I really like the Red Rock Matte Box. Its the most complete and professional of the "value" matte boxes.

It builds a lot like older Arri MB-20 matteboxes- and I think it can interchange brows/flags with the MB20. I'm not sure if it was modified... but I ran into a RR MB with ARRI flags and I noted the clients thought the guy was "serious" because he had ARRI gear. (The only ARRI gear he had was the flags!)

The RR mattebox is a bit delicate- so I don't like it for rentals. I only use it on jobs where I have myself and my ACs working. Otherwise its just easier to hire an Arri MB20 or MB20II

The Cinevate MB looks like its built better- but its really designed to be used as a "cage" for DSLRs and adapter based rigs (Letus, Brevis et al) on prosumer cams.

As far as the follow focus goes, I have not used the current model of the RR FF. I have used their previous model as 1AC, and I think it sucks. A lot of play and screws that need looking after for proper operation. I spent a lot of time readjusting and tightening it, until the owner just epoxied the whole thing. That kills some of its flexibility but made it easier to use all day.

I own a Cinevate Durus, and specified one for purchase on the R1 I spec'd for a company I DP/consult with. They are fantastic especially at the price. They have 0 play (backlash) and feel great to use. Because its a single ratcheting handle its really easy to move around.

On a Red One my 1AC likes to mount it on rods from above the lens. Since there is usually nothing else on those rods she can adjust move the FF from one side to another in about 30 seconds.

I wouldn't buy any other FF until you have budget for an ARR FF4/FF5 or the new O'Connor CFF-1
 
These are all accessories I've owned or used quite a bit.

FF's
Chrosziel 206-01. Excellent. Simple. Light. No play. Two gears.
Arri MFF1. Most versatile of the mini FF's. Reversable gear. Touch more play than Chros.
RR FF. Redesigned. Excellent feel and little play. No flipping gear. Great price.

MB's
Chrosziel 2 stage clip onl. Light. Very well built. Precise trays. 1 Rotating tray.
Arri MMB1. light. Arri build. 2 tray stage. 138 round. Very precise. Excellent build. Clip on or rods.
OBox. Only handle mounted box. Bullet proof build. Heavy. Excellent value. Wide with 2 stages.
RRock. Good for price. Build is sub Arri/Chrosz. Donut system bit primitive. Ok build. In this price range, I'd spend the extra and go O Box or Chrosziel.
Birns/Sawyer 4x4 clip on. Excellent for the price. Great run/gun. nice build. Surprised no one mentions it here.

I'd also take a look at Van Diemen 4x4. Looks like Birns MB but both stages rotate and VD has a good machining rep. Only 800.00 new. I have not used this MB yet.

If I had to stay under 800.00, I'd go hunting for a used MB. There are great deals to be had. I got a good condition Chrosziel 450-01 for 700.00. Much better IMO than RR's.
 
The ARRI MMB-1 is an awesome mattebox. Love it.
 
Must say that I really disliked the RedRock MB.

Very flimsy and unstable. Made me understand what the Arri Matteboxes are really all about.


It gives a good first impression, but then it starts to fall apart.
 
It depends on what kind of a mattebox you are looking for?

A swing-away studio 5.65x5.65 square setup is one thing but our “ruff-n-tumble” O-Box sets the standard for a two stage, 4x5.65, rear rotating 360 tray + 138mm round rotating filter bellows for a total of three filters.

Rod supported (any of the three standards) is possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMjo54TQLvw
 
rr

rr

Agreed with the redrock.

It's nice to start with, but if you shoot a lot....
The side flags will fall apart, the top flag won't stay tight anymore.
The swing-away arm has severe backlash, which make handeld a bit tricky if you have filters mounted. The whole piece moves, the donught open up and create reflections.
The blue screws become hard to unscrew...

well, you get the idea. For the price, it's nice, but you should save time and money and get used one, or a starter kit (and upgarde later) for an arri, chrosziel or o'connor (I never shot with this one).
 
Bérenger Brillante said:
Agreed with the redrock.

It's nice to start with, but if you shoot a lot....
The side flags will fall apart, the top flag won't stay tight anymore.
The swing-away arm has severe backlash, which make handeld a bit tricky if you have filters mounted. The whole piece moves, the donught open up and create reflections.
The blue screws become hard to unscrew...

well, you get the idea. For the price, it's nice, but you should save time and money and get used one, or a starter kit (and upgarde later) for an arri, chrosziel or o'connor (I never shot with this one).
Click to expand...

This is what happens when you don't take care of the RR mattebox.

"not taking care of" it means treating it like you'd treat a rented ARR MB-20.

The RR mattebox gives you a lot of value... but the price is that you REALLY have to baby it. That takes time. Not that much time... but time.

The RR mattebox is a good trade off. But you always hear about the Arri MB20 whenever anyone brings it up. Maybe folks don't realize the huge price difference.

Let me compare them. Both Matteboxes with:
three rotating stages
4x5.65" filter holders
swing away bracket
19mm studio
15mm LWZ
all four flags
hard case w/custom cut insert

The RedRock microMatteBox set up I have is $1784. The filter holders are are combo 4x4 and 4x5.65, and it additionally supports 15mm studio.

The Arri MB20II configured about the same is $8773. (Filmtools pricing) The filter holders are combo 4x5.65 & 5x5. (It doesn't have the circular filter... that requires an extra part.) I could have skipped the combo filter holders and save $150- but at those prices I thought the extra capability was nice.

So... the price difference is $6989.

The MB20 or MB20II are pretty good... but they are not five times as good. In fact I'd argue they aren't worth twice as much.

If my RedRock starts crapping out, I'll just buy another one with some of the $7000 I saved.
 
Thanks everyone for all the feedback. Just to update everybody we have decided to go for the O'Connor MB and Arri MFF-1 Red edition FF. Could have gone for the RR MB with all the good +ve feedback it received but decided to go for some toughness (hopefully) with the O'Connor. Not ordering grips right now cuz they are more expensive than the MB itself. Knew there would be a catch...LOL

Red's new MB also looks pretty sweet but not gonna risk it if we don't get it in time for our filming to begin end of Feb.

Will try to post our experience with the O'Connor MB.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
This is what happens when you don't take care of the RR mattebox.

"not taking care of" it means treating it like you'd treat a rented ARR MB-20.

The RR mattebox gives you a lot of value... but the price is that you REALLY have to baby it. That takes time. Not that much time... but time.

The RR mattebox is a good trade off. But you always hear about the Arri MB20 whenever anyone brings it up. Maybe folks don't realize the huge price difference.

Let me compare them. Both Matteboxes with:
three rotating stages
4x5.65" filter holders
swing away bracket
19mm studio
15mm LWZ
all four flags
hard case w/custom cut insert

The RedRock microMatteBox set up I have is $1784. The filter holders are are combo 4x4 and 4x5.65, and it additionally supports 15mm studio.

The Arri MB20II configured about the same is $8773. (Filmtools pricing) The filter holders are combo 4x5.65 & 5x5. (It doesn't have the circular filter... that requires an extra part.) I could have skipped the combo filter holders and save $150- but at those prices I thought the extra capability was nice.

So... the price difference is $6989.

The MB20 or MB20II are pretty good... but they are not five times as good. In fact I'd argue they aren't worth twice as much.

If my RedRock starts crapping out, I'll just buy another one with some of the $7000 I saved.
Click to expand...

I got a company quote for MB 20II with shade, wings, 3stages, trays, 138mm bellows, (4) step downs, 15LWS and 15studio for 5600.00 for 3 Stage and 5300.00 for 2 stage. With Arri, you're best just sending a list and asking for the best price. Bypass adding it up on site.

Re: RRMB. I was one of the first 50 or so to get one. I had it for ten minutes. Took it out of the box put on the brow and the wings. The brow wouldn't stay up at the slightest knock or sudden movement and the side wings were a bitch to secure at all. Literally took tools to tighten the tie down enough. Sent it back. Got a Chrosziel 450-01 used for 700.00 and it kicked ass in every respect. This was a few years back, perhaps RRMB improved since then. Have they?
 
Tim Naylor said:
I got a company quote for MB 20II with shade, wings, 3stages, trays, 138mm bellows, (4) step downs, 15LWS and 15studio for 5600.00 for 3 Stage and 5300.00 for 2 stage. With Arri, you're best just sending a list and asking for the best price. Bypass adding it up on site.
Click to expand...

I agree... but $5600 is still quite different from $1800. $3800 is a lot of scratch for someone like me. I'm just barely starting to fill out my filter kit for example. (and fighting more and more with folks who think the best way to filter is in post!)

Re: RRMB. I was one of the first 50 or so to get one. I had it for ten minutes. Took it out of the box put on the brow and the wings. The brow wouldn't stay up at the slightest knock or sudden movement and the side wings were a bitch to secure at all. Literally took tools to tighten the tie down enough. Sent it back. Got a Chrosziel 450-01 used for 700.00 and it kicked ass in every respect. This was a few years back, perhaps RRMB improved since then. Have they?
Click to expand...

Oh, they've improved greatly since then! I would have sent that back too, and I wouldn't be here gushing about it.

Here is the thing, when I ordered my first RR MB, I asked them about quality. I hadn't heard bad things... but I said I did, just to see what they'd say.

The rep told me a story that corresponds roughly to yours- and that they lost the customer. They said they addressed it as best they could. They told me straight up it wasn't perfect, but they thought it was much improved.

Now... I don't know if it was you they were talking about, but they are listening to their customers.

I haven't had much of a problem on two separate units I use regularly. I've put only about 600 hours on between the two, but they've been fairly solid. I lost the left wing once on my second shooting day with it, but never again.

I decided today to order a third soon for an early March shoot- and this one will be my actual property. (I do regard the other two as "mine" but they aren't.)

I won't revisit that decision unless the MB fails in some way that clearly isn't my fault. A better mattebox is important, and I am aware the RR MB has shortcomings, but I have a LOT of other things I think are more important on the list.

(Epic X, lenses, dolly, lights new mics, filters, Resolve, lots more computers... to name a few)

If I was a rental house, or if I worked a lot more on big projects I'd probably buy an MB20 or MB20II
 
Last edited:
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I decided today to order a third soon ...
Click to expand...

Why not an O-Box for me?

First I like the O-Box, I think it looks like a great product.

I want the Red Rock because it has more of the features I need. That's because I really need an MB-20 with all the trimmings.

I'll get another smaller lighter MB, and the O'Connor will be high on the list, as will the low end Arri and other better quality brands.

To be clear that's a second MB I'll use mostly on handheld and steadicam - possibly whenever I will be light on filters. In situations where size, weight and reliability matter more than features.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I agree... but $5600 is still quite different from $1800. $3800 is a lot of scratch for someone like me. I'm just barely starting to fill out my filter kit for example. (and fighting more and more with folks who think the best way to filter is in post!)



Oh, they've improved greatly since then! I would have sent that back too, and I wouldn't be here gushing about it.

Here is the thing, when I ordered my first RR MB, I asked them about quality. I hadn't heard bad things... but I said I did, just to see what they'd say.

The rep told me a story that corresponds roughly to yours- and that they lost the customer. They said they addressed it as best they could. They told me straight up it wasn't perfect, but they thought it was much improved.

Now... I don't know if it was you they were talking about, but they are listening to their customers.
Click to expand...

It wasn't me. I told them the problem and they had no answers. Not even a DIY fix. But this was 2 or more years ago, I'm sure they must have stepped it up or they wouldn't be selling. Let's hope.
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