March of the prototypes...

[Evin Grant]

I've now seen all the new glass in it's prototype form.
Since I gave a preview of the Zeiss Compact primes I thought it only fair to do the same for the rest of our options...

A few notes first, these are just first impressions so I'm not really going to be negative on anything. I'll make some observations based on what I think won't change on the final production lens, but that's about it. For more detailed critiques you'll have to wait for SALT.

I'm going in order of the pictures...

1: Focus Optics Ruby
I am a little biased here because I consulted on the development of this lens . Focus action is super smooth with no backlash. The optics are from the 14-24 Nikkor and we all know they are superb, they look great on the Red. Good size and a weight as well. The barrel finish is a nice flat black. Solid construction.

2: Illumina S35 primes
Very solidly built. They have that Russian image character that I find quite appealing in Lomo lenses. Very sharp on the projector, even at T1.3.
Traditional focus (barrels move) not internal focus.

3:Unique Optics
T1.9 very nice looking barrels, modern internal focus design. Very little breathing (in a directors finder). No 18mm yet, but coming soon.

4: Fujinon 18-85 T2
Other than the back focus adjustment which I found amusing, these seem like serious top line lenses poised to go head to head with the Optimo line, both in performance and price. They look superb on an F35, we'll see how they look on a Red at SALT.

5. IB/e Rebel Primes
These are the first lenses I've seen with a tele-centric design, on a finder they didn't breathe at all and seemed to have a nice fall off. The barrels are a complete departure from what I'm used too but I imagine they should be fine in use. They are not internal focus but are rear focus, as in the entire barrel moves forward from the mount. It doesn't move much though so I doubt it will be problematic. Only 25, 50 and 95mm For now.
There was also a mockup of the Supreme Prime 14mm which looked great but it's hard to tell anything from a mockup.

6: Red Pro Primes
The RRPs are impressive, both physically and optically. The projection test proved pretty much exactly what Jim has said all along about their performance. Seeing them through a Red was also very enlightening,
practically no breathing, very pleasant Bokeh and OOF highlight rendering (I much prefer the 7 blade iris pattern to the star pattern from S4s).
The focusing seemed smooth and repeatable with no backlash. Finish was a very sexy flat black. One issue though is weight, these are big lenses (4lbs), this seems to be the current trend as well as the trade off for high performance lenses.

I know there is a time crunch here for many of us (including me) but these impressions are the best I can do for now with such limited exposure to all these lenses. I'm trying my best to get everyone to the SALT within the next few weeks, but it may be hard. I hope this helps.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Thanks Evin! Also remember the flare test on the RPP did pretty well for an ad-hoc test.

 

[Evin Grant]

True, but it wasn't a controlled enough test for me to mention.

 

[Mike Prevette]

Moar!@@

 

[lensmaster]

Telecentric

Telecentric

I spoke to the IBE lens designer. These lenses are not 100% telecentric. Telecentric means chief ray angle at film plane of zero. That is the definition.

He also told me they were basically a set of machine vision lenses they modified to be cine lenses.

Just be careful calling these telecentric. You can tell how close to telecentric a lens is by looking at the size of the rear elements (especially on the wide angles).

I saw most of the lenses at NAB and was surprised how small the rear element on the IBE was since they were claiming telecentricity. Discussions with them told me that although these had less steep angles at the sensor they are not purely telecentric by definition.

The Zeiss lenses also had really small rear elements. Remember a real telecentric lens needs a rear element larger than the image circle. How much larger depends on the T-stop.

I did not see this on the IBE lenses. These were not from the ground up designs like I expected (hoped). They are modified machine vision optics.

Alot of the other sets were much more exciting to me.

 

[Kwan Khan]

Interesting ... thanks evin

 

[Mitch Gross]

To be fair, a modified machine vision lens is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a lens already designed to cover an electronic sensor the same size as the one in a RED. And let's call it "largely telecentric" rather than "fully telecentric." At a certain point the PL lens mount becomes a limiting factor in telecentricity.

 

[Jeff Kieffer]

Lomos compared to RRPs

Lomos compared to RRPs

...

2: Illumina S35 primes
Very solidly built. They have that Russian image character that I find quite appealing in Lomo lenses. Very sharp on the projector, even at T1.3.
Traditional focus (barrels move) not internal focus.

...

6: Red Pro Primes
The RRPs are impressive, both physically and optically. The projection test proved pretty much exactly what Jim has said all along about their performance. Seeing them through a Red was also very enlightening,
practically no breathing, very pleasant Bokeh and OOF highlight rendering (I much prefer the 7 blade iris pattern to the star pattern from S4s).
The focusing seemed smooth and repeatable with no backlash. Finish was a very sexy flat black. One issue though is weight, these are big lenses (4lbs), this seems to be the current trend as well as the trade off for high performance lenses.

Hi Evin,

What about the breathing and the weight and the size of the Lomos, compared to the RRPs?

Jeff

 

[JD Holloway]

deleted

 

[I Bloom]

Evin,

How do the Illumina Lenses compare to Zeiss Superspeeds?

Ian

 

[Charles Pickel]

Illumina S35 Primes Focus

Illumina S35 Primes Focus

Just want want to clarify Evin's description of the Illumina S35's as "not internal focus". True, they are not sealed units like Cooke S4's. More similar to Zeiss mechanism in that the front and rear are coupled by internal guides. This means that your focus gear does NOT move, but the front of the lens and its iris gear do track in and out, but they DO NOT ROTATE. Constant 95mm front diameters assure ease of use with matte boxes and clamp on lens accessories.

They have a feel and function that will be familiar to users of fine cinema lenses.

Thanks to Evin for making the rounds !

 

[Frank Weeks]

Here's a few shots from the Luma tech suite. Evin checking out the lenses.

 

[Evin Grant]

Hi Evin,

What about the breathing and the weight and the size of the Lomos, compared to the RRPs?

Jeff

The Illuminas are a little bit bigger than Zeiss Super speeds so much smaller and lighter than RRPs. As far as breathing I think it was there but very minimal, there was a tiny amount of breathing near infinity on the RRPs too.

Evin,

How do the Illumina Lenses compare to Zeiss Superspeeds?

Ian

They compared very well, it's hard to make a judgement from the limited time I had but I wouldn't hesitate to take a set out Illuminas out instead of Super Speeds. SALT is coming soon and lots more will come to light.

 

[Tim Naylor]

Can someone explain "telecentric" design. I went to their website and after reading for a few minutes, I still didn't get it. I need pictures or a clearer more brief explanation. I got a headache trying to really understand what it is.

Mitch? In plain English anyone.

 

[Tim Naylor]

Will the Illuminas cover 30mm / 5k?

 

[Andrew Walker]

I'm really looking forward to the SALT test Evin. But even with all these other lens options that came up at this years NAB I still think the RPP's seem to be the best deal for what they offer. But of course I really only got to see the RPP's tested on a camera. The other thing to think about is what if something happens to one of your lenses. Who do you think is going to have the best customer service?

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

image side telecentric

image side telecentric

Hi Tim,
First let me explain we are talking here about image side telecentric design as they are the only type useful for creative imaging. It simply means that all rays exit the lens at or close to 0 degrees angle to it's optical axis and, therefore , reach the pixels at the right angle to the sensor(or close to it)
That property mainly improves the off axis illumination on the image side as the extreme rays travel the same distance as the center rays. The other reason this property improves even illumination is minimized pixel shading phenomenon when the rays coming at steep angles are partially blocked by the eddge of the "bucket" containing pixels on the sensor.
I hope this helps, Jacek Zakowicz, optiTek.org:thumbsup:

 

[Mitch Gross]

Jacek explains it very well; let me try in different phrasing in case it still is not clear. Think of the sensor as a flat surface. It kinda is, but actually it's a bunch of little cups, with the light sensitive surface at the bottom. Light coming straight into the cup will hit the bottom. Light coming in at an extreme angle will not. A telecentric lens sends the light straight down the cup or close to it. This is not as important for a film camera as it is a digital one. But it can also improve color fringing and other artifacts.

Hey everyone, Tim's camera was the very first client RED to be officially checked with a Red Null. Yesterday I was shooting the blog video on the Red Null when his came in to have the backfocus checked. I handed the Red Null to our tech to try out. He nailed it right away, and then proceded to go through all his standard checks to confirm because he wanted to be prudent. In the end he could have done it in two minutes because that's all it took using the Red Null.

 

[Charles Pickel]

Illumina Image Size

Illumina Image Size

The LOMO factory informs us that the image diagonal (image circle) for the Illumina S35 T1.3 primes is approx. 33.5mm. This is approximate for two reasons:

1) Not all lenses are in their final form yet.

2) Image circle varies as a function of focal length. Longer lenses will have the largest coverage area.

We understand that none of the lenses will have less than a 33mm image circle. So future digital formats (e.g. 5K) will be covererd.

We expect to have production lenses by August/Sept. and will have sets to deliver in quantity by November.

Hope this is clear.

 

[Paul Leeming]

Hey everyone, Tim's camera was the very first client RED to be officially checked with a Red Null. Yesterday I was shooting the blog video on the Red Null when his came in to have the backfocus checked. I handed the Red Null to our tech to try out. He nailed it right away, and then proceded to go through all his standard checks to confirm because he wanted to be prudent. In the end he could have done it in two minutes because that's all it took using the Red Null.

Could you post a new thread about this lens as well as a picture? You're saying it functions as a normal lens too? I'm keen to know more about this as Japan is a nightmare with backfocus, since no one seems to conform to the STANDARD!! :angry:

It's why Fuji lenses etc have a separate backfocus ring ON the lens! Because the trend here is simply to set the lens to the particular camera, not 52mm precisely. Frustrating as hell....

Cheers,

Paul