Made in the USA...

[Elsie N]

The whole thread is political, Denizhan. Being proud of building products in America is political, and I have nothing against it ;-)

I respectfully disagree because I can understand why one would make that assumption. Just like there is data that shows that a dollar spent turns over in the economy x number of times, I think the same applies with jobs. A wage earner causes other jobs to be created because those local wages are spent. Some of that money stays local but some of it goes for a product that is made or information that is supplied from somewhere else.

A job created anywhere is a benefit to everyone, but most especially to the place it is created. And because families rely on jobs, the family unit benefits in self-esteem. A job is the least common denominator of civility.

And I think that is the true purpose of this thread and the underlying meaning of the discussion.

 

[Eric Lange]

I think Jim is a genius at marketing (and many other things besides).


Sometimes I feel that we are part of one of the most awesome “focus” groups in the world.

Often Jim seems very clever but sincere about throwing up or out there very abstract notions or ideas.
The classic one was “what does professional mean”?

[Obviously REAL jobs are much more than an abstract idea and Jim is making a difference of course (understatement).]


These are not “busy-work” types of threads or a decoy thread to keep the restless ‘natives” happy. It seems he really wants to know these things.

I have to say, Reduser IS a TOUGH crowd to please. You have many independent film makers that hang out here that always seek the alternative view; in essence that is their job!

The old thing, you can’t please all of the people all of the time, but at the same time you have to stand for something; you can’t attempt to accommodate everybody and everything otherwise everything gets averaged out to a wishy washy end.

I have to admit politics aside, we look at what it means in terms of “brand” USA.

When I think of made in USA (with the flag next to it)… I think of Dodge RAM commercials with the twangy guitars and a tattoo of a hemi on your girl friend’s butt (kind of thing) [nothing wrong with that]. I know that’s not fair and I’ll probably get flamed to death for that.. (I drive an F150 (extra long bed) BTW).

So OK, APPLe was very clever in that they said made or designed in “California”…but now California is NOT what it used to be either… [I try to encourage people to come to New Mexico (it’s a little more like what California used to be]. Obviously there’s amazing and terrific capability in California, but in terms of the troubles, state management, infra structure and basic mindset it has definitely changed in the past 25 years plus. Apple says “California” basically to underscore a particular mindset and lifestyle association as well as to say, created by “freakishly” smart Americans.

You have to put MADE IN “whatever” on the item mainly for export (legal/code) reasons. Nowadays you can laser mark, stamp or machine any characters you want onto an item.

I would like to see something like MADE IN USA :smile5: .i.e. with the smiley face emoticon next to it, as this symbolizes, we are smart, want to be friendly, we are of the modern age and we wish to serve the needs of (our customers) world wide, (now that we are in an age where we can (for the most part) communicate freely across borders in an unprecedented way.)


I believe Brand USA is what we make it in the next 10 to 15 years.

…but frankly right now I think it has a bit of an image problem that needs to be set right or on a more even keel.


Cheers,

Eric (there seem to be a lot Eric's about...)

 

[Aaron Kondziela]

I am extremely happy to hear this. As an entrepreneur, one of my goals has always been creating quality jobs, and I prefer to keep my money as local as I can. It's heartening to see you have the courage and vision to do what would terrify so many others. My hat off to you sir.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Posts like these ARE dangerous, because they are uninformed emotions dressed as something rational or quantitative. The analysis is nonsense.

The arch of civilization, from barter economy thru to modern capitalism is one of SPECIALIZATION brought thru efficiency. Human civilization is founded upon pooling of intellectual capital, matched to labor and capital.

You couldn't have better misrepresented my post if you had deliberately tried.

The challenge in our evolving global economy is one of employment. Efficiency creates opportunities to a point but the question is who benefits from those gains in efficiency. Unskilled labor will be replaced by automation and robotics, and it's inevitable. Your Gap, McDonalds and assembly line work is going to vanish. If you have $10m you can put that into robotic slave labor or people. Those robots will be made by other robots which will be created from robotically mined ore. Prices plummet. But there'll be less need for human input except in R&D. This is a *good thing*. It frees us for creative and human friendly enterprises that make us happy like music and film but we're previously unaffordable. The dystopian outcome though is that capital consolidates in a few and we slip into a two caste system. I don't think that'll happen but I do think we should start the seeds of that future today by rethinking how we reward innovation and intellectual property in a post scarcity economy where most of our goods are digital.

 

[Eric Lange]

You couldn't have better misrepresented my post if you had deliberately tried.

The challenge in our evolving global economy is one of employment. Efficiency creates opportunities to a point but the question is who benefits from those gains in efficiency. Unskilled labor will be replaced by automation and robotics, and it's inevitable. Your Gap, McDonalds and assembly line work is going to vanish. If you have $10m you can put that into robotic slave labor or people. Those robots will be made by other robots which will be created from robotically mined ore. Prices plummet. But there'll be less need for human input except in R&D. This is a *good thing*. It frees us for creative and human friendly enterprises that make us happy like music and film but we're previously unaffordable. The dystopian outcome though is that capital consolidates in a few and we slip into a two caste system. I don't think that'll happen but I do think we should start the seeds of that future today by rethinking how we reward innovation and intellectual property in a post scarcity economy where most of our goods are digital.

Gavin I think a lot of your posts on the whole are very funny; interesting that you would get into a tangle with Jim over a “productivity metric”.

You have to see this link, absolutely laugh your arses off, but at the same time provoke much thought.

Contemporary reports of computers and its impact on American Society in the 1960s.

This is mind blowing... considering the topic.

Enjoy!!!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSZOQduIW6s

 

[Jannard]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

 

[Carter Cammack]

I'm sorry if I started all this soapboxing. My intent was to say that with the fall of the US Dollar against foreign currency, building everything overseas is not the deal it used to be five or ten years back. And we could really use some manufacturing work here in the U.S.
Thanks for putting up with us and our rants, Mr. J.

 

[Denizhan Nacar]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

W.Edwards Deming well known American professor helped Japanese about modern manufacturing and quality...


http://deming.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

This type of attitude and envision of AMERICA was what let me to leave behind every one I knew and loved, when I adventure to the USA in 1989, arriving at Manhattan, NY, with
only $100 exact, in my pocket after paying the taxi that left me in front of an Italian Pizzeria to get some dinner.

I felt that in AMERICA ANYTHING WAS POSSIBLE, just needed a DREAM, and I sure did had one...

Wish AMERICA wil continue to be a place of Inspiration for Dreamers as my self, and be a place were those dreams can still be realized, I again applaud your efforts!!

 

[Felix K.]

I don't really understand how we are discussing if bringing business to the US is a good idea. What's the alternative?
Automation kills jobs, we know that for decades know. That is a totally different matter. Let's get back to the fact that RED has decided to make its brand pure "made in USA". And they are proud. I can understand that! Unfortunately that is an exception in the business-world today.

An example: BMW is required to start a pure Chinese car brand because of Chinese regulations, thus sharing their knowledge. Is that clever in the long run? I think not!

 

[David Battistella]

@ jim


You're right. You are talking about the American dream happening in America again. That's good because there are a lot of important values attached to that dream. I'm not talking about how America seems to the world, but how it really is and that is that Americans believe in their country, their abilities and that the American dream of owning a home, working hard and being rewarded with a good life in a safe place, educating and feeding you children is possible for all.

That is a spirit that breeds innovation and success, but it takes leadership and believing again.

The whole idea of America is still the thing that can help the world evolve. Canada is like this too to an extend but with more of a social attitude about it all.

Go big America, the world needs that now.

 

[Eric Lange]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

The man said it…

It’s unbelievable what a good listener Jim Jannard really is and he seems to understand (very well) what appeals to an individual or an entire "market segment" (sorry to use those words).





That’s one of the things that I love about REDUSer is that one may start from one fairly clear premise, and then 120 posts later you find that your mind has been completely changed, 180 degrees. This is why I hang out and to learn and to have my mind changed by people that are really thinking, looking ahead and DOING!

As Jim simply puts it we need to take back the “brand” “brand USA”, not piss it away. Now I see this more clearly. It makes me feel VERY good about what we are doing…(and brings clarity).

Brand USA, (not knocked off, and made in China); but the real article. Leave the Chinese to do what they are good at...

I have to admit I have always found the prevalence of the service industry in the USA (for the past twenty years) rather disturbing/”creepy” I’m glad it’s not just me.

Wow.

[India seems like the ultimate middle man in the future (I don't know if this good or not, but for one thing they are definitely not standing still!)]

Big Cheers,

Eric

 

[Denizhan Nacar]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

Jim

I couldn't agree more. And another challenge we will face is that people need to learn. If all of the entry level work is offshore today then where will the future veterans come Tomorrow? Perhaps we have to start subsidizing industry and manufacturing *today* as a loss leader on tomorrow's future economic landscape.

 

[Eric Lange]

I don't really understand how we are discussing if bringing business to the US is a good idea. What's the alternative?
Automation kills jobs, we know that for decades know. That is a totally different matter. Let's get back to the fact that RED has decided to make its brand pure "made in USA". And they are proud. I can understand that! Unfortunately that is an exception in the business-world today.

An example: BMW is required to start a pure Chinese car brand because of Chinese regulations, thus sharing their knowledge. Is that clever in the long run? I think not!

Not super relevant or is it?? Maybe a good example,

Beee mmm veee, really does have a very substantial and legitimate axe to grind with the Chinese for sure.

[Anyway need to do more DOING less posting (somehow)…]

inspiring stuff.

Eric

 

[Jannard]

One of the problems I see is that young vision guns get bought up early by VC's and don't have a chance to take it all the way. Many take the 1st $20M they are offered after a year of work and go to Tahiti.

Jim

 

[Carter Cammack]

Exactlly the reason I don't like IPOs or selling stock. As soon as a company goes public, their PRIMARY mission chances from providing goods and services for their customers to pleasing the investors with profits. It's hard not to lose your compass. The motivation to invest in innovations or new product is lost. The brand name is whored out with cheaper lines. Just look around and make a list of once-brilliant brands.

 

[Felix K.]

One of the problems I see is that young vision guns get bought up early by VC's and don't have a chance to take it all the way. Many take the 1st $20M they are offered after a year of work and go to Tahiti.

Jim

Look out for Joseph, Jim

 

[Eric Lange]

One of the problems I see is that young vision guns get bought up early by VC's and don't have a chance to take it all the way. Many take the 1st $20M they are offered after a year of work and go to Tahiti.

Jim

Ouch…


Don’t worry my wife would hit me on the head with a frying pan repeatedly until I “saw” sense.

The problem is everybody has a price and usually with that “magic figure” (in my case it would be to enable myself to be in situation to focus MORE on innovation something we are good at). Speaking for myself/we have some very good ideas (more than good, and better than just ideas…) almost permanently on the back burner, but the one or two we are running with can provide a good foundation. A business has to be viable to support greater innovation, but at the same time it’s really hard to get to the much more fundamental and deeper innovations that one would like to get to.

I have to say ever since I could remember Edison or his myth totally captured my imagination, as he built this amazing infra structure for himself where he could almost endlessly innovate in ways that changed everybody’s life. Obviously he did get in to trouble with this and that but still, the whole concept behind Menlo Park was way ahead of its time.

Almost everybody has a price or a figure that they have as a line in the sand. This is all getting a bit “Faustian”. So perhaps I look forward to the day that I can write a check to myself for $54M so that I can then get to the real nitty-griity of what needs to be done. Consequently a slower more indirect route is required which is also a risk in of itself.

[Wild].

Eric

I guess what you are also getting at is the idea that (for example with international and national patents) there is the possibility of basically being poached by non-US entities.

This also raises the question of IP and good US minds and talent being tempted away? Does this damage US business and is it therefore a threat to national security? …As this could in some cases (little by little) erode the foundation of the US itself. So this underscores the need to invest in US innovation to keep people and ideas in the US to primarily serve the US. This is why the Berlin wall was built originally. It was not designed to keep those “capitalists” out, but rather to keep the smartest and best people in. I.e. to stop brain drain.


This is an interesting question.

 

[Alain DEUDJUI]

With people like you Jim,America will be back to the Block of Manufacturing and the Pride of made in the USA will once more mean something in Wall Street .

Thank you Again for being a classy Patriot .