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MacBook Pro 2016 Thoughts

jonathan murphy

jonathan murphy

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Hey all. Of the people who have the new MacBook Pro with 460, what are your thoughts? How is it handling RED Raw? 4k, 6k, 8k, etc. I just got one yesterday and will be doing tests as well.

The Verge review said it played 4k footage on small timelines but bigger timelines bogged down. Im guessing due to the 16gb of ram. I bought one but have until Jan. 8 to return it. I will be comparing it to the Alienware 13 with 1060 graphics. Once I get that in I will post results.

Anyone else have thoughts? Would love to hear them.
 
Check out Jarred's facebook where he has done some Red centric tests with the new Macbook Pro. Due to Apples clever design integration even with some lower specs the machine performs extremely well performing up there with the competition. Its not without faults which Jarred points out but its not being left in the dust by competitors and it will be my next choice of laptop.
 
i am typing on that exact laptop with 2TB drive. It will run R3D very smoothly up to 6k, but 8k will run but stutters after a few seconds. i am looking at compression 8:1 to 10:1. This is in FCP X 10.3. I think proxys are the way to go for 8k but for 5k or 6k it is great. Very fast ingest with the new 3.1 reader. And RCXP at 1/4 debayer runs just fine with 8k, even 1/2 is good, so for ingest, checking files, etc it is awesome. For editing as I mentioned, there are limitations.
 
Always get the Maxed out solution, but this time I decided to go with the bottom line one, 2.6Ghz CPU, 450 GPU, 256GB SSD... And as soon as they get either a iMac or new Trahcan then that will be the maxed out version for the horsepower desktop workstation...

At the end I really just don't do the heavy lifting wile traveling any ways, and with DSMC2 I now have 2K Prores LT to work on while keeping the 8K R3D to re-connect to for OffLine editing.

If I see that it is not enough, well, then some lucky fellow will get to buy it off of me in a month or so... :)
 
I've found serious bugs that cause kernel panics, and need to wait for AKiTiO to Apple certify their Thunder3 Quad 4-Bay case (early 2017), but other than that I'm impressed. Max the specs! I just want a RED 4K workflow, and it certainly can handle that. :-)

We even may get nVidia pascal drivers for external video card support soon. https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox3-egpu.html/#457:1560

Bugs: http://www.girafxmedia.com/?p=710

UPDATE: OSX 10.12.2 fixes the serious TB3 bug
 
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If, when, ever?, Apple and nVidia bury the hatchet and actually support eGPU over TB3 properly - then it's game on for apps that exploit CUDA cores like Adobe does. Sadly, the RAM limit will still be an issue for doing workstation class tasks. IMO, FCP-Xers on the go are the biggest winners.

Cheers - #19
 
First of all, put away your Geekbench, Cinebench, etc.. benchmarking tools that never paint an accurate real-world picture. Apple has once again worked their magic with hardware tuning and this thing screams. They have done a lot of very smart things with the new MBP. Anyone who gives it a fair chance and really puts it to the test with stressful apps should be pleasantly surprised.

The good:
* The screen. Just damn... it's really good.
* Form factor. Y'all can say how thin and light isn't as important as getting the job done, but Apple did great here.
* Performance. It completely destroys all the assumptions made by critics and naysayers and shows just how poorly optimized other PC notebooks are with the same or similar hardware specs. It's not the most powerful notebook on the market, but it kills my Dell XPS 15 and hangs in there with the Razer Blade that's configured with the same CPU and a technically superior GPU. Actually wins out in terms of CPU and internal I/O throughput, the Razer only does what it does because of the bigger GPU and option for more RAM.
* Build quality.
* Keyboard. Give it a few days of real use. Then try to go back to what you were using or any other PC notebook, this new keyboard is pretty great. Yes, a bit different at first. The Touch Bar is a separate issue and this is something we really can't speak to just yet. As of right now it feels a bit gimmicky and when it comes to replacing the existing function keys it's not as good as just having function keys. But there is a lot of potential here.
* Touch pad. Still the best one out there. Although this one feels a bit big and like it could be used for more -- like if it supported the Pencil and gave us the equivalent of a built-in Wacom tablet.
* FOUR FREAKING TB3 PORTS!

The bad:
* 16GB RAM maximum. Apple has made it pretty clear that 32GB would have resulted in a compromise in either battery life or memory performance and looking at what's on the market, as well as the capabilities of this generation of Intel platform, I concur. But that doesn't mean it should not be an option. I think many of us would opt for less battery life to have the additional RAM with the same level of performance, which is fully possible.

* AMD GPU and no CUDA support. While I would like to see the industry move to OpenCL and not be platform specific, CUDA is still superior and many of our most used apps and tools are based on CUDA. And nVidia's OpenCL implementation also performs best lately and they have better driver support and optimization... Although have not provided support for their latest Pascal series GPUs on OSX and their OSX driver base needs some serious attention.

* TB3 compatibility issues. This is not specifically an Apple issue, but the new dual-port TB3 controllers are not fully compatible with the first gen TB3 device encoders from Texas Instruments. Or at least there is a chance the combination can cause issues with data integrity. Intel and Apple have chosen to proactively lock out peripherals using these encoders for the time being until a solution is worked out. It doesn't seem like a huge issue until you realize that most all the TB3 peripherals on the market at this time are using those TI encoders.

* Inconvenient ports. A more temporary situation until the industry catches up. The TB3 USB-C ports will require people to replace a lot of their cables or in some cases use an adapter. It would have been nice if one of the TB3 ports could have been scratched off the design sheet in favor of one or two Type A USB 3 ports and that familiar SD card slot. OTOH, the industry isn't going to make the leap to the new standard if someone like Apple doesn't make the push. The lack of an SD slot is painful to some. For many creative pros their primary media types are USB thumb drives and SD cards. Not being able to directly plug these into their new notebook is a real kick in the balls. All my new flash drives that I have personally bought have been the Lexar and Sandisk ones with both USB-C and USB Type A connectors on them. That's what I've been buying since getting my XPS 15. So I'm good on flash drives. But when someone hands me a Type A flash drive, I have to dig out an adapter.

Other thoughts:
The current TB3 incompatibilities are a huge issue and I hope they're resolved soon. It seems there are a few hacks out there in various stages of development that will enable you to use otherwise locked out TB3 devices. Of course, these devices are locked out for a reason. And while that lockout is draconian in nature, I understand why they're doing it. For those who don't have any TB3 devices at this time or are buying along with the MBP, this isn't a huge problem. Or really a problem at all -- just get devices that are compatible. All the latest RAIDs and a couple of the new PCIe expansion boxes are compliant.

The eGPU support is nice, but until nVidia gives us an updated driver set with current optimizations and support for Pascal (GTX 1080, etc..) support, we're not going to feel the eGPU love under OSX. We can run GTX 900 series cards and Maxwell based Titan X and Quadro cards though. Yet it seems the nVidia driver package to support OSX eGPU is pretty new and very beta, and buggy.

Inconveniences caused by having only TB3/ USB-C ports are just that, inconveniences. This can be very frustrating at times. I've already had to be proactive on two occasions since getting my MBP and handing clients my own flash drives to use and give back to me. Had to educate a few people on USB-C.

The lack of an SD slot isn't as important to me as it is to some, but I've already felt the sting of not having it this last week on a family trip when I needed to offload some photos and had to connect the camera to do it -- didn't bring another card reader.

16GB on a quad-core system with a 4GB GPU isn't an ideal match-up for some of my heftier tasks. I have not dove into serious R3D workflow anything with this system yet other than to test some conversion speeds. My initial tests are very encouraging, but time will tell. In the end, I bought this system to replace my 2012 MBP which I have been primarily using for iOS development and a general use notebook. The new FCPX kicks ass on this new MBP though. Adobe needs to take a serious look at optimizations for Premiere and then expand the Mercury engine and related optimizations and GPU support into AE and other apps.

I really like the keyboard. And I'm also seriously pissed off that they've done what they have done on their iPad keyboards and removed the ESC key. It's like a giant middle finger to Excel users and programmers everywhere. Hey at least it's included on the Touch Bar, which is more than I can say for the Smart Keyboard on the iPad.

Oh, I'm using a fully maxed-out 15" configuration with 2.9GHz CPU, 460 GPU, 2TB SSD. And yeah, that SSD is fast.
 
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So basically...

it's a laptop for pros who prefer an ultra thin laptop with longer battery life over performance, yet prioritize connecting 4x TB3 performance required devices which run on AC, and if you spend about $4K you can expand it with another GPU to reach a generation older performance level, because unlike with other laptops with today's GPUs you wouldn't care expanding, here there aren't even drivers present for Pascal...aand folks on Indiegogo had to step in because $200.000.000.000 was insufficient to produce a fully functional portable device from the get-go, carrying a "Pro" label.

Device promoted with "Pure Genius".

:emote_popcorn:
 
So far I love the build quality but I am returning it. Although I respect everything Jeff just said, It bridges the gap in speed due to having just a little faster CPU. Imagine if they also offered Pascal graphics in addition to that? But they dont.. I am not seeing the magical performance that some are on this thing. I work with 6k dragon footage and yes when i turn the res down to a 1/4th it plays...but so do a lot of computers. Bottom line is I cant justify spending FOUR THOUSAND dollars for something that doesn't do exactly what I need it to. I also have worked with Cinema DNG 4:1 footage and it bottlenecks hard on the GPU. Can you get work done on this? Absolutely.. but is it worth the money? Not in my opinion.

Note: If you work in FCPX this could be great. I work in resolve so for me its not the best option.
 
If you wait around for Apple to put a real GPU in a MacBook Pro, you'll be waiting forever. Actually the 1060M would be comparable to some of their better offerings in the past, which were always mid-range GPUs. By the time they release an update, the 1060M will be old news anyway. I'm expecting a spec bump to Kaby Lake CPUs in the latter half of 2017. Starting to look like the CPUs are being delayed and this could have something to do with why Apple launched when they did. Don't expect 32GB RAM until the following CPU iteration -- 2018 ish. Apple isn't going to deviate from their current design and power profile using LPDDR3 memory. This does not bode well for larger RAM capacities. All the new higher capacity DRAM chips coming to market are DDR4 and I don't foresee Apple altering logic board design until the CPU platform requires it and that is further off.

I hope I'm wrong, but this is how it seems to be shaping up right now.

@Jonathan I can understand your decision here. This is a very expensive notebook and falls short in a couple key areas -- namely GPU and RAM. OTOH, if you work primarily in Resolve, there are not too many notebooks out there that will provide reasonable to good performance. I use Resolve quite a bit myself and there isn't a notebook out there that I can stand to use it on. Some of the mobile workstation type laptops that are huge beastly things using desktop class CPUs and GPUs can come close, but I've quite buying those -- usually they come with more compromises than features and I've managed to melt most of the ones I've ever had. I might pick up a Razer Blade Pro whenever they finally show up, but if they're as shitty as the current Razer Blade, then that would probably be a waste of time. I'm thinking my best bet is a Dell Precision with Kaby Lake CPU and top tier mobile Quadro GPU when that configuration comes available... May/ June maybe...
 
Shiblon Wixom said:
I will probably wait for the next generation of MBPR after this one, hopefully with a GTX 1060M and 32 GB RAM. I know they did some optimization for 16 GB RAM and a combo of using the system flash SSD for caching, but I dont think 16 Gb RAM is enough for 6k or 8k stuff.
Click to expand...

Next MBP may not be intel CPU based; however, it is expected Intel will fab the A chips for Apple's use in future Mac products (macOS on ARM).
 
Apple switching to ARM has been a constant rumor for a while now. And ultimately I think it will happen to some extent, but not just for Apple. ARM is going to be invading the notebook and desktop PC space in a meaningful way in the very near future. Intel is in the ARM game now and I fully expect to see x86/ARM hybrid CPUs as we move into 10nm process. The PC market is in a slump and continues to slide. Most people have all the computing power they need in their phones and tablets. Yet these devices don't always provide the experience needed or the right interface for all situations.
 
I've been looking for a max'd out MBP bcus i need a new mac OS system.
Two of my friends was able to walk in an Apple store 2 weeks ago and just buy one.
All apple stores, macmall, and other dealers all told me they wont have any shipment of the 460 cards until mid january.
So i started searching online to find some info.
I found a few articles and forums that 460 card has had power and graphics issues, and unsold store stock in apple has probably been sent back to revisions.
Apparently these issues are not present in the 450 and 455.
Should i order and wait for the 460? or would a 455 be a happy stable place?
I have a maxed out trash can and had tons of issues with the graphics. i've had apple replace the entire unit twice in the last 3 years.
Most likely i'll be cutting on proxy.
and using it for QC and offloading off my helium.
Any guys with the system have any experience with the NOT top line?
 
The 455 is experiencing the same issues as the 460. I've seen a few credible theories as to what is causing it, but doesn't seem like anyone can confirm and Apple has not said anything, they're still investigating. It does not affect all systems, only a small percentage of them, but enough that it's a high priority issue and an obvious concern for those buying. I personally have a maxed-out unit with 460 GPU and after two weeks it is still problem free. I quite like the system and it's my go-to notebook for most everything. I do wish a 32GB RAM and more powerful GPU option were offered though. Of the handful of people I know that have a new MBP in their hands, 6 others in addition to myself, one experienced occasional screen flickers and jumbled screens and he had a 455 GPU. Apple had him return the system.

Depending on your location, you may or may not find the model you want at an Apple Store. Secondary retailers like Best Buy or B&H are mostly still waiting for stock to arrive and that's probably a few weeks away unless you have one on order through those channels. My closest Apple Store is one of the biggest in the country for sales volume they have a waiting list a mile long for new MBPs and tell most people that their best bet is to just order what they want.

My one friend with the problematic GPU was the first person I knew of to receive the new MBP. He had a couple other issues too. The system arrived with some scratches on it right from the factory and the Touch ID component of the Touch Bar was loose and would wiggle about. I'm thinking that for the first week or so of manufacturing, Apple was still getting their production line up and running and kinks worked out a handful of lemon MBP's slipped through QC testing. Not sure if this pertains to the GPU issues or not. Could be software related, but odd it only seems to be a problem with a small number of units. Unlike the 2013 trashcan Mac where the D600 GPUs had some issues with Adobe Media Encoder and a couple other tools, but this was a software issue also present with the same series of GPUs under Windows as well. AMD ultimately fixed it (or most of it) in Windows, but the issues never got addressed in their Mac Driver set. Many people, myself included, had GPUs replaced, some even had systems replaced. One would think Apple/ AMD would have solved the software glitch to save on the warranty claims. The MBP GPU issues seem to not be software and I'm wondering if some flawed GPU chips are slipping through QC somehow and getting used. Last time this happened, flawed GPUs entering the production line, it was nVidia chips and ended in a voluntary recall from Apple and they replaced a ton of logic boards, many of them after warranties expired. I think this was on the 2011 15" MBP if I recall. I had my screen go all wonky and Apple first thought it was the screen, but also replaced the logic board after the screen replacement didn't fix it. I had the system less than a year and dumped it when the retina MBP came out like 8 months later.
 
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