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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mac vs. Windows...

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We own both.
But i prefer our windows machines...

I hate handling large amount of files with the mac finder. I also don't like the dock, feels like a toy.
I also don't like apple's mouses...

I HATE THEM BOTH FOR NOT MAKING COMPATIBLE FILE SYSTEMS (NTFS, HFS...)
 
Mark Phelan said:
It is very interesting to read from many PC folks who swear by their Mac laptops as the best there is, especially the retina models.
Click to expand...

The display is important; if they'd offered a 32gig model (I had to have 32) I'd have gotten one instead of the HP... even though they don't have the processor and GPU the HP has, just because of the awesome display.
 
PC + Adobe Premiere CS6

[video]http://www.adobe.com/casestudy/premiere/rhcp.modaldisplay.._s_content_s_dotcom_s_en_s_prod ucts_s_creativesuite_s_production.html[/video]

"Apple isn't supporting professional editors anymore with the new final cut" -Bill Yukick
 
Jannard said:
What is your opinion?

Jim
Click to expand...

Linux. Nothing beats it and its is the choice of ALL the top high end tools for professionals (Autodesk, Filmlight, SGO...)
One can only hope Red release a Pro Linux version of RedCine
 
Danny Robashkin said:
Brian, I'm glad to hear from anyone..... but you'll notice you didn't really answer my question. I understand that Mac people "Like Macs" .... that would make sense. My question is, when you actually stop to think about it and get to specifics, what is it that the Mac (OSX) does better/easier than PC(Win)?
Click to expand...

My answer is you're probably not going to get the answer you're looking for. It would be cumbersome and pointless to go item by item and debate each feature or function's ease of use or time saving capacity. Each OS wins in certain areas.

That's a very pragmatic approach to comparing the two and, as I've pointed out, Apple ownership is less about pragmatism and more about something else. Let's call it style. Not just industrial styling but a certain style in thinking and going about things.

Apple figured out a long time ago that style matters. Many Windows users, to this day, discount style because they strongly feel like it shouldn't matter when compared to things like price, performance and an ocean of choices.

And yet, it does matter because that's the way humans are wired. If Microsoft had bothered to pay attention to just about every science fiction movie or TV show ever made, the future of computing was always going to be slick, sleek, good-looking and easy to use. Duh.

But, if you're going to twist my arm, the best I can do is say the Mac's "even easier" DNA that appeals to me so much comes across in many intangibles and runs deeper than in Windows. That's the "better" in my opinion.

It's like how old money can always spot new money. Apple wreaks of ease-of-use and style while Windows is still awkward and somewhat uncomfortable in it's new skin.

For the longest time, Windows/PC packaged processors, software, hard drives, motherboards, memory and peripherals. Apple packaged a computing experience. When you think back fondly on things in general, it's the experience that you remember more so than the mechanics.

I don't get the impression yet that Microsoft, Dell, Lenovo or HP actually believe in it. They're getting much better at mimicking it, however.
 
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Its hard to maintain a mac world, when they don't update their pro machines. I expect the new Mac Pro to be THE machine to use. I think everything is moving Thunderbolt and PCIe will eventually be less used.

Right now, at work, I'm getting flak for shooting on Red because our mac pros are 2006 and 2008 models. We had the funding last year to upgrade, but didn't want to commit to the older machines that SHOULD have been upgraded. Switching all of our post to windows is a VERY hard sell. Our mobile edit systems based off the Retina Macbook pros are running circles around out edit bays.

we've upgraded one of them with an Nvidia card and a rocket, but if that one is booked on a project, editing red is very difficult.

For the time being, I have built a Hackintosh because the hardware isn't there, but the OS is solid and way more friendly than windows.
 
We are on PCs. Low cost and high speed are huge factors for us. Adobe stepped up the game and we are currently very happy editing multi-cam concert footage on some workstations we built.
 
Short answer: Windows 7x64, although I own and work with both.

Long answer (probably too long):

I second what several users have said. I hope I can recall most of it. Sorry if I don’t mention who said what, but I went through all the thread and I don’t believe it’s necessary to quote, just to summarize.

For a long time, I have been professionally advising professionals and post facilities on their IT equipment and workflow, and built their systems as well when required.

I think that final user experience is about the same between the two. OSX/Mac is “most compatible” within its own world, Windows/PC world is broader. It’s a metaphor of life. If you want more freedom, it requires you to know better what you are doing, but I find that rewarding. If you want more stability, you narrow yourself down to a more controlled, slower-developing environment. It’s a trade of; it’s not right or wrong. I don’t believe I have spent more time in either platform to make them work properly. Speaking of Linux, I think it is a powerful OS, but maybe too far in the “freedom” direction with so many more different packages and developers than is possible to keep up with, and in the end you end up spending more time tweaking your machine than working.

I have worked with many platforms. I own several machines, desktop and portables: Apple machines, Branded Pc’s, custom Pc’s and Hackintosh. The reason for my Apple stuff and Hackintosh, is clients. I agree with Santiago that most of the myths about R3D being still difficult to handle comes from the “we are stuck on the OSX FCP7 world and we need the workflow we have always been using”. I also bought a Macbook Air i7 for portability, when I need to travel and not much work to do. The build quality is astounding. I don’t think any other portable maker is where Apple is. I use Mac OS Mountain Lion when I just surf the web, send e-mail, etc. When I do have to work, I just switch to Windows 7x64. Even on the same “Apple” hardware (let’s just say Apple approved and assembled hardware), Windows has been more stable down the road when performing similar tasks, even on different software.

My personal choice is Windows all the way. Windows 7x64 has proved to be a rock solid OS for me since the start, and before that I went the Windows Server x64 route which was also extremely good despite having less support for multimedia hardware x64 drivers back then. I like when I get to choose every component’s level of quality when I build my custom work tools with exactly what I need.

I’m glad that R3D are well supported on both platforms, and for “processed” stuff I do find Cineform the best way to go cross platform codec wise, even without changing wrappers (and using avi wrapper for both). I know it’s an “extra license to pay for” (it’s not that the other codecs are “free” but those fees are already included in the price of the software you are using them with), I find the current price worth the money. Downside is that clients don’t like being pushed to “codecs” they don’t know because they “are not standard in Mac, so why should I use it”

Windows "lack of security" per se, and many other things are just a myth in real life. I’ve never had a problem. I surely prefer to be the kind of user whose things run smooth because he knows what he is doing, rather than being the one who is not screwing up just because he is caged. Everyone is on their right to choose what’s best for them. Again, security wise it’s more just a matter of market share. Why are there now many OSX extra security/anti-whatever-you-want-software? Simple. It has a bigger market share now, so it became more appealing for attacks.

As M.Lalande just wrote: I HATE THEM BOTH FOR NOT MAKING COMPATIBLE FILE SYSTEMS. That is so true. Of course this has their less than ideal workarounds, but it’s annoying. In the end I do prefer NTFS than HFS+. During my life, I’ve seen more corruption in HFS+ with less final recovery % than NTFS. And as he also said, handling a large amount of files on OSX finder is a pain in the ass.

Bottom line: A professional should just know how to handle properly as many tools as he is required to. That’s why he can be “called” like that. And in the end, he is entitled to have his own preferences, but always out of knowledge and first hand experience with everything, not out of myths, not out of who was best or worse in the past. We are in the business now, not in the future nor in the past. As Matthew said in his post, “I like to master my tools, not my tools to master me.”

Nobody can blame Apple for their business strategy. They move towards where it’s more profitable for them, where they have had their best achieved innovations. I couldn’t care less about who invented what, I care about what’s available. I don’t follow imaginary loyalty paths. I follow what delivers. I learn and use the tools that CURRENTLY work the best for me.

I repeat. It’s a trade of. Get the work done with whatever works best for you. But don’t find an excuse in tools. To a point, you should know how to handle them all, how to deliver with everything. This is analog to the iPhone/Android world. Want something that surely works because all the available options have been thought and tried for you? Your best choice is an iPhone. You need more options? Get and Android, you’ll find exactly what you want, but you’ll dig a bit more. You can screw up more too. It’s not best or worse, each to their own, but for me it’s crazy when people “had” (there are other alternatives to this, but are usually not considered by most users because they can’t change the cages they are used to) to replace their Mac for a new one just because they bought a new iPod and the iTunes that handles that iPod version can’t be run on their 10.6.8 system which can’t be upgraded to 10.+ even though the hardware would be perfectly capable of. You can’t even try if you wanted to, you have less decisions to make.

RED delivers for me. RED is upgradeable and I get to choose which components I need to use. I'm here now.
 
Ben Scott said:
It is very interesting to read from many PC folks who swear by their Mac laptops as the best there is, especially the retina models.
Well, it has a high res display. Give me a pc laptop with the same and I'll pick that :)
Click to expand...

Lots of reasons. The mechanical build quality of the case is fantastic, the screen is incredible, the cooling is great, the thunderboolt is very fast, the power in the usb connections is higher than most pcs, the memory is very, VERY fast since its integrated very close to the cpu, the cpu is fast, the graphic card is fast. The only thing I wish is that it had more memory. 64gb would have been great.
I can never EVER have enough memory. We sometimes work with images with 25000x8000 pixels and 16GB is not really enough I'm afraid. With Mac I also like the prores codec.
Back in the day I would stay on a pc because,
- it's cheaper
- games
- visual studio
- 3ds max
But now I don't care about any of those. Not even the prices is as important as well built quality that will work.
Cheers
/Andreas
 
I prefer Mac and Apple in general. I love OS X.

However I don't know how much I trust Apple. I do not think they plan to stick in the professional market. Which means I will be forced on a PC. I have been considering going linux for a while, with Editshare's Lightworks going Beta today plus Resolve and Fusion, Linux is becoming more of an option for me.

I know, you did not ask about linux.

Currently Mac, tomorrow I do not know.

**My Current Mac is outdated, and it may very well be my last. (I never thought I would say that.) I would like to stay Mac, but I don't think they want to stay with me.
 
Brian Boyer said:
My answer is you're probably not going to get the answer you're looking for. It would be cumbersome and pointless to go item by item and debate each feature or function's ease of use or time saving capacity. Each OS wins in certain areas.

That's a very pragmatic approach to comparing the two and, as I've pointed out, Apple ownership is less about pragmatism and more about something else. Let's call it style. Not just industrial styling but a certain style in thinking and going about things.

Apple figured out a long time ago that style matters. Many Windows users, to this day, discount style because they strongly feel like it shouldn't matter when compared to things like price, performance and an ocean of choices.

And yet, it does matter because that's the way humans are wired. If Microsoft had bothered to pay attention to just about every science fiction movie or TV show ever made, the future of computing was always going to be slick, sleek, good-looking and easy to use. Duh.

But, if you're going to twist my arm, the best I can do is say the Mac's "even easier" DNA that appeals to me so much comes across in many intangibles and runs deeper than in Windows. That's the "better" in my opinion.

It's like how old money can always spot new money. Apple wreaks of ease-of-use and style while Windows is still awkward and somewhat uncomfortable in it's new skin.

For the longest time, Windows/PC packaged processors, software, hard drives, motherboards, memory and peripherals. Apple packaged a computing experience. When you think back fondly on things in general, it's the experience that you remember more so than the mechanics.

I don't get the impression yet that Microsoft, Dell, Lenovo or HP actually believe in it. They're getting much better at mimicking it, however.
Click to expand...

+100 for this. People shouldn't confuse the style comments as a putdown - like in "you've got no style." It's just, as Brian points out, a different way to approach what computers are and do. Apple, IMO, "gets it." That is precisely why they are also successful with consumer devices, from iPod to iPad, when MS fails with these devices (Zune, anyone?).

One of the things Steve Jobs did when he came back to Apple was squash any ideas of licensing the OS to cole-makers. Being the control freak he was, he wanted to control the whole user experience. And that adds something.

People who are happy with their PC experience should be happy that they are happy. :smiley: That means they have no need to change anything. That's good. That's the way I feel about using my Mac.
 
no pun intended but was this question intended to be "Red meat" ?
 
You're right..... You mention style, intangibles, "ease of use" without specifying how. So of course the answer doesn't help me :)

I mean, it's cool to say I'm a fan because of how it makes me feel, which ironically may be why so many PC power users will use Mac laptops when they just need an internet machine and to view some videos. In a professional forum/context though, I think it is weird to argue against price, functionality, versatility and power.

But yeah, this is what you get in the PC vs Mac debates. Who started this for the millionth time anyway? :P
 
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