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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mac Pro Workflow

From what Ted said I gather the proxy mode simply looks at every other block/pixel to get 2k.. so it misses out some.. 1k miss more out in the read etc.. but is fast.

Pretty sure you'll get better quality actually down sampling full4k, rather than skipping over data. Though if it downsamples hats off :)

Thanks for the rundown!..

S
 
Thanks for your quick reply, Cogito.

Hoping to hear you soon...
 
fightordie said:
Could some explain this part to me and how you get the 1k proxies. Thanks
Click to expand...

The Quicktime codec decodes the original 4k file but only sends 1k to
the app (FCP in this case).


Thanks for the great explanation Jabez!


Deanan
 
flameop said:
Pretty sure you'll get better quality actually down sampling full4k, rather than skipping over data. Though if it downsamples hats off :)

S
Click to expand...

For final quality 2k/HD, yes you do want to do the bayer
conversion from the full 4k. We're still working on it
so it's hard to talk about it at the moment (because
it'll end up working differently than it is now).


Deanan
 
cogito said:
The Online process basically involved manually going into redcine and extracting in a useable 4k format all the shots that we had used in the offline. This task was bravely tackled by Weta Digital and their editorial and I/O teams.
Click to expand...

We ended also writing a very quick conform tool that was unfortunately
finally working a few hours too late for Weta Digital to use
(they were almost done with the rendering at that point).
It simply took the edl and batch output all the frames
matched to the edl. (not really rocket science)

I'm still in awe at all that Jabez and everyone else at PRP / Weta
did in such a short timeframe. Really amazing.

Deanan
 
I wish all responses were as clear as yours....Jabez!!

You've help a lot of people (not wasted their time) with clear, simple & complete explanations.

Cheers,

PS: thanks Deanan
 
Okay,

Just to summarize editing native RED 4K in FCP.

Ans: It’s pointless!

For 4K Finish

Step 1. Ingest down rez native 10bit 4K Raw onto the FCP timeline. (Use REDRAD to select Rez)

Step 2. Offline edit. Produce EDL/XML for Red RPL to produce 4K online files (Cuts etc must be compliant with RPL & online ingest)

Step 3. Online on 3rd party grading system.


FCP can’t do any more than this for a 4K finish! Apple Color can only handle 8bit RGB 2K!

Cheers,
 
david farland said:
Apple Color can only handle 8bit RGB 2K!
Click to expand...

Is this definitely the case? Apple are a bit vague on this on the Color spec page. They talk a lot about 32-bit float internal processing in Color, and that it supports reading and writing 2k Cineon and DPX files, but they do not mention the bit depth. I know FCP is still restricted to 8-bit in RGB, but does this also apply to Color? Anybody…?

Final Touch 2k could work with 10bit Cineon and DPX files. I kind of assumed this would still be the case with Color.
 
Colour is not restricted in that way, and does RGB at 32 float.

Graeme
 
Thanks Graeme. You answered while I was still typing.

Nice to meet you at NAB by the way, and apologies if I was rather over sycophantic about your genius!
 
There is no support for 4K on the spec sheet.

Color spec's say 4:4:4 @ 2K.

Also no mention of RGB output bit depth. happy to assume 10 but.....

If anyone knows of a way to edit native 4k in FCP/Color...please tell me!!

Also I hope that Redcine may have the same EDL compliance from Color to Redcode API as FCP to Colour but 4K effects/cc.....nah!

Cheers,
DF
 
Just to clear this up for my uneducated self - so to edit your 4K footage what you do is make a lower-resolution (1K) copy of your 4K footage, edit that 1K footage (because it's much faster to edit with), and then output your 1K edit using the 4K footage? (the 4K timecode matching that of the 1K edit?)
 
Grug said:
Just to clear this up for my uneducated self - so to edit your 4K footage what you do is make a lower-resolution (1K) copy of your 4K footage, edit that 1K footage (because it's much faster to edit with), and then output your 1K edit using the 4K footage? (the 4K timecode matching that of the 1K edit?)
Click to expand...

Sort of. The 1K isn't actually a copy; it's being extracted directly from the original 4K files, using wavelet decoding tricks.
 
That's right Chris - one file, the 4k master file can be viewed as 1k, 2k or 4k (or 0.5k or postage stamp size too for that matter).

Graeme
 
I think the confusion started because Cogito (In his excellent post, btv.) mentioned 1k Quicktime reference files.
But it really is the 4k raw file, just decoded to a 1k image buffer, right?
 
Yup, the 1k quicktime movie is a couple of k in size, and just points to the 4k data file and tells quicktime to decode it as 1k rather than 4k.

Graeme
 
Yes, that's right. Native apps like REDCINE can read the data files direct, but for convenience, the camera makes a Quicktime reference file so that any app can read the data as 1k, 2k or 4k. Works great.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Yup, the 1k quicktime movie is a couple of k in size, and just points to the 4k data file and tells quicktime to decode it as 1k rather than 4k.
Click to expand...

What would be insanely useful is if there were both preview and high-quality modes for this process. In 'preview' mode, the QuickTime wrapper would instruct the decoder to use wavelet tricks to extract footage of the appropriate resolution and pass that to the app. In 'high quality' mode, the QuickTime wrapper would instruct the decoder to decode the full 4K, do a high quality scale to the appropriate resolution, and pass that to the app. This would make it really simple to get maximum quality 2K into QuickTime apps for desktop 2K finishes.

It something like this implemented/planned?
 
There is sort of that in there at the moment, and we're in the process of refining it further.

Graeme
 
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