Mac Pro Trashcan overheating

[jake blackstone]

First, Apple finally admitted their mistake with the Trashcan design https://www.google.com/search?clien...0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.dHbE37UyqG4
Second, if you consider yourself a PROFESSIONAL, please, please do not use anything else on a Mac side beside MacPro computer. Not an iMac, not MacBook Pro etc. Use MacPro 5.1 only. Just install GTX 1080 and you will have zero rendering issues. None!
And finally, do yourself a favor, if you absolutely set on a Mac solution, just use this:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Apple-Desk...ml?_from=R40&_sop=15&_nkw=mac+pro+12+core+5.1
All those computers are ridiculously cheap in comparison to 6.1 and 12 core 5.1 with GTX 1080 will outperform 6.1 all day long...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I know some people are desperate to stay Mac, but if you don’t already have a Mac tower to upgrade or find that it will cost more than you think it should to upgrade, then look at the HP Z820. HP Z820 launched in 2011 and went through a couple revisions over 3 years. At its oldest, it is still a generation newer than the best Mac Pro 5,1 tower with faster memory architecture and proper PCIe v3 support, not to mention that you can add a Thunderbolt 2 port to one for $50 if it does not already have it. I recommend the Z820 for this scenario because they are solid and reliable systems and so plentiful on the used market — just look at the number of them on eBay! For a time these were the hottest selling workstation out there and tons of them have come off lease returns and the corporate chopping block. So if you want a powerful workstation at a bargain price and can live with running Windows, this is the ticket. I still have a Z820 here — dual 8 core paired with 128GB and a GTX Titan GPU. Still gets used regularly and smokes any Mac Pro config out there. Can pick one up with dual 8 core CPUs, 64GB RAM and no GPU for well under $2K if you shop around. Throw a 1080TI or Titan Xp GPU in there and you’re ready to rock.

Way less brain damage and better performance than trying to limp along the 8 year old (yes really) Mac Pro 5,1 Intel i5500 platform launched in late 2009.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I know some people are desperate to stay Mac, but if you don’t already have a Mac tower to upgrade or find that it will cost more than you think it should to upgrade, then look at the HP Z820. HP Z820 launched in 2011 and went through a couple revisions over 3 years. At its oldest, it is still a generation newer than the best Mac Pro 5,1 tower with faster memory architecture and proper PCIe v3 support, not to mention that you can add a Thunderbolt 2 port to one for $50 if it does not already have it. I recommend the Z820 for this scenario because they are solid and reliable systems and so plentiful on the used market — just look at the number of them on eBay! For a time these were the hottest selling workstation out there and tons of them have come off lease returns and the corporate chopping block. So if you want a powerful workstation at a bargain price and can live with running Windows, this is the ticket. I still have a Z820 here — dual 8 core paired with 128GB and a GTX Titan GPU. Still gets used regularly and smokes any Mac Pro config out there. Can pick one up with dual 8 core CPUs, 64GB RAM and no GPU for well under $2K if you shop around. Throw a 1080TI or Titan Xp GPU in there and you’re ready to rock.

Way less brain damage and better performance than trying to limp along the 8 year old (yes really) Mac Pro 5,1 Intel i5500 platform launched in late 2009.

Looks like there are a bunch of these for $1099 (or best offer) - are they the right CPU? Anything we should know? Haven't bought a PC since 2005...

HP Z820 16-Core CAD Workstation 128GB DDR3 RAM No HDD No GPU NoOS

Operating System Edition: Not Applicable
Product Line: Workstation UPC:
100570
Model:
Z820
Number of Processors: 2
MPN:
Z820
Item Condition: Seller Refurbished
Form Factor: Tower
Return Policy/Warranty: 30 Day Money Back or Exchange

Processor Type: E5-2680


Processor Speed: 2.60GHz
Memory: 128GB

Graphics Processing Type: Dedicated Graphics
Operating System: Not Included

 

[jake blackstone]

I know some people are desperate to stay Mac, but if you don’t already have a Mac tower to upgrade or find that it will cost more than you think it should to upgrade, then look at the HP Z820. HP Z820 launched in 2011 and went through a couple revisions over 3 years. At its oldest, it is still a generation newer than the best Mac Pro 5,1 tower with faster memory architecture and proper PCIe v3 support, not to mention that you can add a Thunderbolt 2 port to one for $50 if it does not already have it. I recommend the Z820 for this scenario because they are solid and reliable systems and so plentiful on the used market — just look at the number of them on eBay! For a time these were the hottest selling workstation out there and tons of them have come off lease returns and the corporate chopping block. So if you want a powerful workstation at a bargain price and can live with running Windows, this is the ticket. I still have a Z820 here — dual 8 core paired with 128GB and a GTX Titan GPU. Still gets used regularly and smokes any Mac Pro config out there. Can pick one up with dual 8 core CPUs, 64GB RAM and no GPU for well under $2K if you shop around. Throw a 1080TI or Titan Xp GPU in there and you’re ready to rock.

Way less brain damage and better performance than trying to limp along the 8 year old (yes really) Mac Pro 5,1 Intel i5500 platform launched in late 2009.

I have three computers:
1. SuperMicro SYS-7048GR-TR with X10DRG-Q Motherboard (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...k8IMZZd44cgKiuw0SGdfHuQ-oF8QRHpYaAny2EALw_wcB)
With three GTX1080 and dual 14 core CPU with 128GB Ram it is a beast. But it is LOUD. This is my go to computer, when things needs to be done on Linux or Windows.
2. I have Z820 with dual 10 core 64GB RAM with single GTX 1080. It gets things done without any drama. And , yes, it is cheap!!! Love this computer. Yes, also, Linux and Windows dual boot. I just wish it wan't so cramped, but I'll take it.
3. I have MacPro 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 with dual 6 core 3.33Ghz CPUs and 64GB RAM. With GTX 1080 it outperforms top of the line Trashcan without any drama and I have USB3, Decklink and 4GB LSI Fiber card, that still does the job done. Now, why do I have this old computer? Because it still does the job done, when I need it, even if I need to deliver 4k. Resolve, Flame (yes, Flame!), NUKE, FCPX, Adobe suite, AVID with Baselight Editions, Prelight, Daylight etc, all run perfectly. I really couldn't care less, if this is an 8 years old computer. It's cheap, parts are plentiful and I have a complete second computer just sitting off to the side, just in case I need it. It cost me next to nothing, why the hell not have a spare?
The second reason why I use Mac, of coarse, is Prores. I do have Linux Resolve, BUT if I need to take my computer on location, all of a sudden connecting to a network becomes a chore. Linux is incredibly stable and powerful, but ease of management is not it's strong suit. You will find yourself in command line hell in a hurry and with clients standing around, that is not fun. Also, reading and writing to/from HFS/NTFS on Linux can be problematic. You would need to install Paragon HFS/NTFS (it's not as easy as it sounds). And then, all of a sudden Windows computer will throw a dirty flag and now you'd need to run chkntfs command. Or there is a permission issue or... Well, you get the idea. I have no problem running Linux at my place, but on location, Mac is still the king, when it comes to ease and speed of operation. And don't get me started on writing Prores on Windows. Yes, apparently, you can write Prores on Windows with Fusion, but audio needs to be brought in separately and if you have a lot of files to deliver with sound, Windows still doesn't cut it. So, as much as I hate to state the obvious, MacPro 5.1 is still the best Prores solution out there. But if you don't need to deliver Prores, then Z820 and Windows is your friend...

 

[Joel Voelker]

I bought a cheap pair of silenx fans and literally taped one to the top of the trash can to draw air through it and pointed the other one at the bottom. Haven't had it overheat since.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I have Z820 with dual 10 core 64GB RAM with single GTX 1080. It gets things done without any drama. And , yes, it is cheap!!! Love this computer. Yes, also, Linux and Windows dual boot. I just wish it wan't so cramped, but I'll take it.

Jake, is it possible to put two 1080Ti GPUs in the HP z820? How well do the HP machines work with Thunderbolt?

 

[Curtis boggs]

I like the idea of a Hackentosh if i can get thunderbolt to work.

I like Mac, FCPx and my thunderbolt raids.

I've seen a few videos on Youtube about building
a Hackentosh that makes it look fairl painless.
Anyone have experience building them?

Curtis

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake, is it possible to put two 1080Ti GPUs in the HP z820? How well do the HP machines work with Thunderbolt?

If you have the standard 1125W power supply you should probably able to run 2x1080ti, considering, that those cards each can draw up to 300W at peak use. But even that is less, than ATI's Vega( stating at 300W and up depending on the card model). Standard 1080 only draws 180W, so that is why 1080 can comfortably run in standard MacPro 5.1 and that is what I'd do, if I wanted to run dual GPUs in Z820. Leaving about 400W for everything else, including dual heavy duty CPUs is not ideal.
I don't have first hand experience with using TB on Z820. Personally, I have no use for TB. It's just that everything connected with TB is very expensive and I have zero need for it. Other interfaces- SAS or Fiber are much more robust and quite a bit cheaper.

 

[Dermot Shane]

Jake, is it possible to put two 1080Ti GPUs in the HP z820? How well do the HP machines work with Thunderbolt?

i have 2 x1080's in mine, only founder's edition or similar low profile blower cards will fit, dual 6pin connectors are bonus as well - i have the larger ps

no idea about the t-bolt card either, like Jake not much need for it, i use a SAS raid card

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The Z820s come with either an 850W or 1125W PSU. You can run dual GPUs on the larger PSU. 1080s or 1080TIs are the way to go. The system is not ideal for multi-GPU and you’ll have to steal power from somewhere as there’s only 3 x 6pin power connectors to start with, but no big deal to pull from a drive bay. The Thunderbolt 2 card works fine on them if you need it. I run an older Promise Pegasus R6 RAID off of mine and it works fine. There’s plenty of space inside the tower to put in some decent internal storage. The integrated LSI RAID host is pretty crappy though — only 3Gbps SAS/SATA connections and very poor monitoring and diagnostics ability. Yet it still works just fine for general storage or typical HDD workspace. IIRC, there are two 6Gbps SATA connectors. I have a 512GB SSD connected to a 6Gbps port and 4 x 2TB HDDs in a RAID for workspace in mine.

 

[Misha Engel]

I like the idea of a Hackentosh if i can get thunderbolt to work.

I like Mac, FCPx and my thunderbolt raids.

I've seen a few videos on Youtube about building
a Hackentosh that makes it look fairl painless.
Anyone have experience building them?

Curtis

I build one for a friend of mine a year ago, now it runs windows10 because he couldn't keep it running by himself.
When you like to spend more time configuring your hackintosh than editing or coloring then this is a good option(yes TB2 worked most of the time).
Just have a look at https://www.tonymacx86.com/ what kind of problems you can encounter.

Just my two cents,

Misha

 

[Curtis boggs]

From the looks of this it seems what i should likely do is build a great Windows
machine to run Resolve and do the heavy lifting. Use the mac for FCPx etc.

But, what about prores on the Windows machine?

Also is there anything being given up on the file handling side
or how the Raid system is managed?

I have all TB raids now. Just a few so i'm not huge dollars into it though.

Curtis

 

[PatrickFaith]

Fusion has prores support on windows now, go over to liftgammagain.com ... they have a ton of info on it. Liftgammagain also has a couple of huge discussions on macs, I think in someways that's a better forum to learn about this stuff, if someone is researching how to constantly do production renders.

I btw have supported over 10 new mac pro's without problems. On 8 of them they were in a datacenter room with super cold air blowing over them. On the two I have now inside a normal post room, I run "macs fan control" at a setting of "cpu peci" 100 to 129. That is to say that once the temp is above 100 the fan starts going to around 1400 rpm, and when the temp is at 129 the max rpm of 1900 is reached. So basically anything I do aside from breath on the machines the fan goes to 1900. With the fan at 1900 the trashcan is actually fairly noisy, as the fan does a fairly good job at that temperature. I have both 12 core d700 and 8 core d500 with these setting, and don't have problems. ONCE you have problems, i.e. the board is damaged from overheating, it gets progressively worse and the fan settings don't help as much. So my oppinion is ALL trashcan mac pro users need to run at max fan settings when the temp is over 129(and this NEEDS to be automated, because if you forget to max the fan manually you are hosed).

 

[Marc Wielage]

So my oppinion is ALL trashcan mac pro users need to run at max fan settings when the temp is over 129(and this NEEDS to be automated, because if you forget to max the fan manually you are hosed).

That is pretty much my experience as well.

You can get some decent work out of the Trashcan Macs to a point, but it really takes a whip and a chair, and you have to really check everything very, very carefully. It's a pain in the ass, but it is doable. By comparison, there's almost no risk when you're rendering on a well-ventilated Windows machine and it's going to DNxHD or DNxHR.

 

[Misha Engel]

From the looks of this it seems what i should likely do is build a great Windows
machine to run Resolve and do the heavy lifting. Use the mac for FCPx etc.

But, what about prores on the Windows machine?

Also is there anything being given up on the file handling side
or how the Raid system is managed?

I have all TB raids now. Just a few so i'm not huge dollars into it though.

Curtis

It is stated before in this thread.

Joel Voelker
I bought a cheap pair of silenx fans and literally taped one to the top of the trash can to draw air through it and pointed the other one at the bottom. Haven't had it overheat since.

And me
Cheapest way to solve it:

Give a commen ground to both yourself and the computer chassis to prefent electro static discharge (ESD).
Clean the trash can, dust of the components and/or use a vacuumcleaner and compressed air for the parts you can's reach (inner heatsink).

Make sure the air intake is not hindered by something (carpet etc..)
Put a high air-flow/pressure fan (that has same or a bit smaller diameter, as the air opening on top) on top of the trashcan when you do compute heavy tasks with the Trashcan.
The cooling should be much better now and yes it makes more noise.

And when you want to stick to apple, you better wait for a professionel Mac that might arrive in 2019.
The upcoming imac pro will have the same thermal problems as all the current mac's do since thrascan.
DNxHR will give you the same possibilities as ProRes and on a windows or Linux machine you can still import prores just not export it officially (https://windowsprores.com/).
Thunderbolt will be available in 2018 for other than intel platforms and china will kick in for the low-prices/high-volume.

My advise would be: Remove the dust on the components and buy a fan and put it on the trashcan during heavy workload and wait what 2018 brings.

 

[jake blackstone]

And when you want to stick to apple, you better wait for a professionel Mac that might arrive in 2019.

It will not be anywhere as cheap, as Windows or Linux workstation.

The upcoming imac pro will have the same thermal problems as all the current mac's do since thrascan.

And don't forget, it had been estimated, that the top of the line 18 core/Vega iMacPro will set you back $17,500. And that is for a computer, that can't be upgraded.
Pass...

 

[Marc Wielage]

And don't forget, it had been estimated, that the top of the line 18 core/Vega iMacPro will set you back $17,500. And that is for a computer, that can't be upgraded. Pass...

What I saw on all the Mac News websites was that the top-of-the-line iMac Pro would be about $10K. Still totally ridiculous, and I wouldn't buy one either just for the lack of expandability.

What I'm hoping is that they won't make us pay $17K for an expandable Mac Pro in a box with slots. That would put me in quite a quandary. I'd have to take on an extra job to pay for it, like going out as a hit man. "Colorist / Hit Man." Yeah, that would look good on the business cards.

 

[Curtis boggs]

It will not be anywhere as cheap, as Windows or Linux workstation.

And don't forget, it had been estimated, that the top of the line 18 core/Vega iMacPro will set you back $17,500. And that is for a computer, that can't be upgraded.
Pass...

And at that point there will be no question if I totally abandon the Apple cult!

They must be smoking large quantities of crack over there.
What 1/2 way sensible engineer would think these designs like a friggin trashcan was a good idea in the 1st place?
Prime example of a company totally out of touch. ( sorry, venting )

When the video cards start to go bad what symptoms are you seeing??

Curtis

 

[Curtis boggs]

It will not be anywhere as cheap, as Windows or Linux workstation.

And don't forget, it had been estimated, that the top of the line 18 core/Vega iMacPro will set you back $17,500. And that is for a computer, that can't be upgraded.
Pass...

what do you think the answer to this situation will be? abandon prores for another codec ?

 

[jake blackstone]

what do you think the answer to this situation will be? abandon prores for another codec ?

No, plenty of software can read and write Prores on Windows and Linux.
Or, at the very least, use a 12 core MacPro 5.1. They are cheap, plentiful, VERY reliable and can still get the job done without any drama. Add a GTX1080 and call it a day, if Prores is a deal breaker. If you can get away with DnxHR, use a PC on Windows...