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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mac Pro Re-Design?

T

Timothy Eaton

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Is anyone talking about the next iteration of the MacPro being a complete re-design? I claim no expertise, but if I were going design the next MacPro, it would be a very small box with the latest Intel processors, a couple of thunderbolt ports, and possibly a basic graphics card. Everything else would be external: thunderbolt expansion chassis of various sizes (hopefully at least one or two from Apple) to accept Rocket and graphics card(s), external thunderbolt storage, thunderbolt displays, etc. In a few words, mobile, modular, blazing fast, and economical. Maybe I'm just talking about old news, but it seems like the existing chassis and form factor have run their course.

Tim Eaton
 
They already have the system you describe. Its called Mac Mini.

Thunderbolt is not fast enough to replace PCIe!
Thunderbolt is currently 10Gb/s
A single current v2 x16 PCIe slot is 80Gb/s
v3 of PCIe is already defined and a x16 slot of that can do 160Gb/s.

Red Rocket is a one generation old x8 PCIe 1.1 card. x8 PCIe v1.1 is 20Gb/s, so a Red Rocket can saturate a Thunderbolt bolt all alone.

A bunch of Thunderbolt ports is not going to cut it for a pro system. It will replace firewire, not PCIe.

Hopefully Apple will make a proper 4u rackmount system. That is what I want.


Dusty
 
Well there you go. With all the hype about thunderbolt, I thought it would be fast enough. As I understand it, the Mac Mini doesn't have the graphics or processor horsepower necessary for editing, color correction, etc. Was looking for something that would be small but more powerful than the Mac Mini. Shows how much I know.

Thanks Dustin
 
The new Mac Mini is short of GPU, but they have a nice 4 core system, that would work great for most editing. And once Thunderbolt stuff ships you will be able to add things like a Red Rocket and Raid card to the new Mac Minis, but I think it will only be slight better than a laptop at best.


Dusty
 
Dustin Cross said:
The new Mac Mini is short of GPU, but they have a nice 4 core system, that would work great for most editing. And once Thunderbolt stuff ships you will be able to add things like a Red Rocket and Raid card to the new Mac Minis, but I think it will only be slight better than a laptop at best.


Dusty
Click to expand...

It IS a laptop, in fact you can get a MBP with a dedicated GPU, so in most cases it won't be faster than modern pro laptops at all. Still not a bad system at all though.
 
Thunderbolt is PCIe on a cable.

The current iteration, aka as slow as it will ever be, is equivalent to a 4x PCIe 2 slot.

When PCIe 3 finally shows up Thunderbolt will scale to follow. Even without fiber.

Once fiber hits, expect Thunderbolt to exceed PCIe bandwidth.

Even with all that ... I don't think anyone thinks that an "all Thunderbolt" workstation can be built today that can rival the current generation of Mac Pro's. Cards will be with us, I'm guessing for at least two more workstation generations.

From what my all too few little birdies have told me, Apple is working on a radical new workstation.

The next Mac Pro, will probably look a lot like today's Mac Pro though. I think optical drives will be optional, that we can expect multi-port thunderbolt ... heck we might even get PCIe 3, but its mostly going to be the same computer we've been looking at for 5+ years. An aluminum box crammed full of the best workstation level tech available.
 
One fact about Thunderbolt that is usually overlooked, even by manufacturers promoting it, is that it's dual-channel. So there's an aggregate 20Gbps in each port. Alexander is correct, a current Thunderbolt port, when the full 20Gbps is considered, is essentially a PCIe v2.0 X4 slot.

The rumor link posted by Brian seems to be recurring a lot and there's a lot of little tidbits out there to support it. Given the way technology is headed, most of the characteristics mentioned in that rumor only make sense. The current, now almost 9 year old, Mac tower design has got to go. It just isn't very functional in today's world. With Apple discontinuing XServe 8 months ago, that also seems to be a good indication that they will have a new product to serve both the workstation and server markets.

As for the "when" it will happen, it's anyone's guess. Intel is mucking with their roadmap lately. Their new Workstation/ Server chipset is late and I think many of us (myself included) believed their last roadmap update, which said it would ship last week. But it seems that Intel is becoming more aggressive in the face of AMD's latest releases, which are a bit lackluster in the performance department. Almost as if Intel is going to stall off a bit longer and skip over the Sandy Bridge iteration of their pro platforms. Just yesterday, Intel pushed their 22nm Ivy Bridge mobile platform into full production -- nearly 6 full months ahead of schedule. As part of the announcement, they confirmed that it has both integrated Thunderbolt controller (one less thing to integrate separately on the motherboard) and it also has integrated USB 3.0 support -- something Intel has been attempting to resist, but it seems they were fighting a losing battle on that front.

So what does this mean? Hopefully it means that Intel is moving forward with all Ivy Bridge platform components and the workstation/ server chipsets should be up next, at a 32nm process.

If all this indicates anything in regards to their workstation and server platform, I wouldn't expect a new Mac Pro or other new workstation-class PC products from vendors like HP, Dell, etc.., until early next year. I'm betting Intel is going to drop the Sandy Bridge iteration. It was a misfit addition anyway, not really an improvement over the previous (now 3 year old) chipset and wouldn't incorporate USB3, Thunderbolt, etc.. I'm betting it will be early next year...

For the Mac Pro, I'm expecting a slimmer design that is rack-mountable. More internal storage connectivity with support for 2.5" devices. They will probably ditch the dual optical bays and some rumors are indicating that they may dump the 5.25" bays altogether, offering the option of a slimline or slot-load optical drive for those who want optical discs. PCIe slots are up for speculation. The current Mac Pro often falls under criticism for only having 4 PCIe slots. The reality of it is that the 4 slots are the best that can be offered without resorting to multiple host chipsets in cascade form, which is what any PC motherboards offering more than 40 PCIe lanes are currently doing. The Sandy Bridge pro platform was to carry through with the same 40 lane PCIe v2.0 bus, but also add additional lanes of PCIe v3.0. Thus leading to speculation that new Mac Pro systems would implement 5, maybe 6 slots -- hopefully. If Intel holds off for Ivy Bridge, then we can only speculate about slot arrangements, as the specifics on PCIe configuration have not been announced for the platform. Rumors are placing it at 36 lanes of PCIe 2.0 (Thunderbolt ports each would require 4 of those lanes to be used); and another 32 lanes of PCIe v3.0. If this is the case, then I'm hopeful of seeing a 5-slot design. Which would be two Thunderbolt ports, two PCIe 3.0 X16 slots, and three PCIe 2.0 slots -- hopefully all X16 electrically with the ability to configure lane assignments. All 3 could be X8, or there could be an X16, X8 and X4 slot.

Of course, that's all highly speculative.
 
Asif Limbada said:
BTW Mac Pro refresh is rumoured to be push to early 2012, due to Intel Chip delays. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
Click to expand...

Yep, everything seems to point to that. Looks like the CPUs are ready, or just about ready, but Intel has delayed the chipsets, possibly even skipping a chipset iteration as they have moved some others in their pipeline ahead by several months. I'm all for skipping a generation if possible, but on the other hand, we need the update ASAP. The 552x series chipsets are 3 years old and feel really dated.
 
Despite new CPU options, Apple reportedly questioning future of Mac Pro

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...reportedly_questioning_future_of_mac_pro.html

Despite the coming availability of a new generation of Sandy Bridge desktop CPUs suitable for advancing Apple's Mac Pro line, the company has reportedly been evaluating whether to continue to invest in furthering its full-sized workstation line beyond this year in the face of limited sales.

Although the Mac maker has reportedly developed a revision to the existing Mac Pro that may or may not see the light of day, people familiar with the matter said management as far back as May of 2011 were in limbo over whether to pour any additional resources into the product line.

According to these people, the consensus among sales executives for the Cupertino-based company was that the Mac Pro's days -- at least in its current form -- were inevitably numbered. In particular, internal discussions were said to focus around the fact that sales of the high-end workstations to both consumers and enterprises have dropped off so considerably that the Mac Pro is no longer a particularly profitable operation for Apple.
 
If they do discontinue, I can, without feeling guilty make a powerful HACKINTOSH. :-)
 
Message to me is: If you need a Mac Tower in the next couple years - better buy a loaded one soon
 
With all the hoopla around Thunderbolt and PCI adapters, people kind of forget about memory. I have 48gb in my 12 Core and that's not even max'd out. This is a big shortcoming with laptops / iMacs. Dark days ahead...
 
If workstations are going towards multicore APUs there will be less and less need for expansion slots.
 
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