Mac Pro Hardware Question

[dannymac]

Hi I'm a newbie to the MAC Pro and Final Cut Pro. I'm trying to better understand the post production work flow as far as the hardware goes.

Could someone walk me through it so I can make the right decisions when it comes to purchasing my MAC/FCP hardware along with the RED Camera system?

I will most likely be outputting to 1080P Blu Ray or regular DVD.

So I take the Red Drive Off the camera...how do I get images into the MAC (and my hard drive array?)

-is there some kind of digitization process involved?
-is it real time?

I will need to reuse the Red Drive the next day so I'll need to dump everything down to my MediaVault array so it can be returned to the camera. I'll probably shoot a total 6 to 8 hours of footage on any given project. What kind of drive array size would I be looking at (I have the 1.2TB Mediavault now)

Can I jack the Red Drive right into the computer or do I need to go through some kind of I/O board. If this is the case what do you recommend? keeping in mind that I also need to input standard definition Betacam tapes from a Beta Deck to update past projects.

Producers I work with will want to screen the video from the Red Drive perhaps on set...certainly the same day using a MacBook Pro what does the MacBook need to be able to transfer and hold the contents of the RED Drive(s) (low quality or proxy files OK)

Please don't point me to the FAQ's and post production work flow posts here I've read them all... and all need a basic understanding of tapeless work flow, the MAC and FCP and I have no experience with any of these. I am moving from an SD Betacam/Leitch VelocityQ system so please keep it simple...:clown2:

Thanks.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Hi I'm a newbie to the MAC Pro and Final Cut Pro. I'm trying to better understand the post production work flow as far as the hardware goes.

Could someone walk me through it so I can make the right decisions when it comes to purchasing my MAC/FCP hardware along with the RED Camera system?

I will most likely be outputting to 1080P Blu Ray or regular DVD.

So I take the Red Drive Off the camera...how do I get images into the MAC (and my hard drive array?)

-is there some kind of digitization process involved?
-is it real time?

-No, recording to Compact Flash or the RedDrive is inherently digital, and remains digital, thus there is no such thing as 'digitization'. You either plug in the CF card into a reader, or connect the RedDrive via Firewire and then drag and drop the files.
-Yes it's 'real time', depending on what that means to you. It will transfer as fast as the connection allows (FW800 is what I use).

I will need to reuse the Red Drive the next day so I'll need to dump everything down to my MediaVault array so it can be returned to the camera. I'll probably shoot a total 6 to 8 hours of footage on any given project. What kind of drive array size would I be looking at (I have the 1.2TB Mediavault now)

What projects shoot that much? Most projects I've worked on only shoot about 50gb per day (roughly 30 min), and that's shooting 12 hour days. Here's a worst-case calculation for you. One 8gb CF card will last 4.5 minutes of 4k footage. Thus 8 hours = 60*8 = 480 minutes. Let's round to 500 to be cool. 500 minutes/4.5 min per card = 112 cards. 112 cards * 8gb per card is roughly 896. So your 1.2TB MediaVault will work. I strongly suggest two of them and mirror all footage.

Can I jack the Red Drive right into the computer or do I need to go through some kind of I/O board. If this is the case what do you recommend? keeping in mind that I also need to input standard definition Betacam tapes from a Beta Deck to update past projects.

The RedDrive has FW800 and FW400 and USB ports.

Producers I work with will want to screen the video from the Red Drive perhaps on set...certainly the same day using a MacBook Pro what does the MacBook need to be able to transfer and hold the contents of the RED Drive(s) (low quality or proxy files OK)

Download the software from www.red.com/support, it's free, you can then view the Quicktime proxies immediately, I do it all the time. Or, you can watch playback on camera.

Please don't point me to the FAQ's and post production work flow posts here I've read them all... and all need a basic understanding of tapeless work flow, the MAC and FCP and I have no experience with any of these. I am moving from an SD Betacam/Leitch VelocityQ system so please keep it simple...:clown2:

Thanks.

You definitely haven't read that much because all the answers I just gave aren't that hard to come to from here and www.red.com. So I'm not sure why I just did all your research for you . Perhaps you haven't been to www.red.com? It pretty much spells this all out and the gaps can easily be filled here.

 

[dannymac]

Hi Shawn..thanks for the reply...


>>>What projects shoot that much?<<<<
Documentaries and Promotional Videos with interviews that can go up to 30 minutes (and are then cut down) we sometimes shoot 6 to 8 of these a day.

Can I ask about something else?

I'm reading about Kona and Black Magic I/O cards and breakout boxes....which is why I asked about digitizing. I suppose I need one of these for SD video input but apparently not for the Red system if I understand your explanation.

What about external monitoring on the MAC are these I/O boards for that too?

My external monitoring setup now is two composite BNC outs...
-timeline preview: clip head
-timeline preview: clip tail

and one component out:timeline video out to Broadcast quality monitor

Does the MacPro have similar video outs..are they native to the computer or is an I/O board needed?

thanks again....
Dan

 

[timecodemultimedia]

Dan,

Seriously, you are looking for lots of intricate feedback which really depends on your system, your budget, and your over all workflow. We are willing to help but we all have gone through massive research which (excuse me if I am wrong) you'd like to get without spending the time reading. Your video cards depend on your computer and the format you will handle most of the time. You have to test for yourself the equipment and not go by what I or anyone else tells you. Buy a kona card, buy a black magic card, buy a panasonic monitor, a sony, a jvc and decide what you like best. Whatever you don't like return it. What each of us likes and/or use may not be the best for you.

To give you an example: for me black magic cards don't compare to Kona, and pro video monitors? Ha! I wouldn't recommend anything less than a $35,000 monitor for true color correction. But that's me - someone else probably think I am crazy and recommend something a lot cheaper.

 

[dannymac]

Dan,

Seriously, you are looking for lots of intricate feedback which really depends on your system, your budget, and your over all workflow. We are willing to help but we all have gone through massive research which (excuse me if I am >>>wrong) you'd like to get without spending the time reading.>>>

You are wrong..very wrong..I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for weeks. And, like the information found in the documentation of most new technologies, the author has forgotten or doesn't even realize what his intended audience DOESN'T know..the basic concepts needed to understand his explanation. It's a very old story.

You know it's funny, I've been shooting and editing since the mid 70;s..I started shooting 16mm film and cutting on 2 inch quad head reel to reel machines the size of a Volkwagen. I've used every major piece of new camera technology that's come out since then...one tube Sonys with the 150lb back pack, the TK76 which was a miracle picture wise but it and it's "portable" VTR weighed in at over 100lbs. The Betacam,,,another small miracle at the time..the Digi Betacam....overblown hype....editing the same..so many systems, tape formats and the analog to digital changeover. Every one of these technologies I taught myself how to use. So now we have "the next being thing" and it's just one more thing to learn.

I run a busy and successful production company and rarely meet or talk to anyone else in my business. So if I need to know something I read and ask (sometimes) dumb questions. I've been around long enough to know that when I do deal with someone who is seeking knowledge I already have, I give it freely without insult. As an Cinematographer, Videographer analog and NLE editor I have managed to make myself a millionaire a few times over. I didn't get there by being a tech head..what's the point?..it is always changing all the time anyway..that's one thing long experience has taught me. And when it's time to ditch an old way of doing things and move on everyone starts low down on the learning curve...too bad there are those out there who forget that. Sadly in my experience people in our business are not very generous with information. I suppose it drains to ego to share. This was particularly the case with old school DOPs when I was coming up...it was like a F*cking secret society.

But the internet has given me hope that it's culture of the free exchange of information
might improve this situation. And this site in particular the only good source of info on a brand new technology, should be especially easy for the newbies to get the info they need.

Red One is another small miracle image-wise but in 5 or ten years it'll just be more junk collecting dust. I don't care that much about the nitty gritty technically I just want enough knowledge to get me started on my SD to HD/PC to Mac switchover and getting it to work with my new Red Camera. My job is to create using the best technology I can afford...not get aroused by the technology itself...so pls...cut us newbies some slack. There is no such thing as a dumb question.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Hi Dan,

Wait for NAB then:
-get the latest top MacPro
-get the best monitor
-get FCP
-get Crimson

And you are all set to get started, and see for yourself what is eventualy missing.

Take care

Emmanuel

 

[Bruce Allen]

In addition to you reading up on everything, I'd suggest paying Mike Curtis for an hour or two of his time - mike@hdforindies.com - he should be able to point you in the right direction quickly.

Free exchange of information is great but it takes time to sift through everything. Also, with the rate things change, if you're not a tech-head, it's impossible to keep up. And when something goes wrong, it's nice to have someone to call who knows your setup if you need help.

Since you're running a successful production company I assume your time is worth something so that's why I'm suggesting this route.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Mark Phelan]

Dan,

Emmanuel's answer is close to what I'm doing. I'm going to NAB to decide on certain options, waiting, waiting, waiting to pull the trigger on a new MAC setup, already have a decent monitor, will upgrade my FCP after the new computer arrives, will get Crimson and use it until something else comes along that makes things simpler, the list goes on. Oh yeah, there's a camera purchase in there somewhere too.

I'm glad that there has been a waiting period for the camera, as strange as that may sound. Since my camera is going to be here around late May/early June, I've been taking the time to read everything I can and simply trying to get a grip on everything new. It's almost impossible, nay, it IS impossible to keep up with everything. This stuff is happening at such a fast pace, that there is no one solution for anyone, we're all at various levels of work and competencies.

Let us know what you decide and the reasons for doing so.

 

[Videoteque73]

Dannymac questions are very normal and the more RED cameras there will be out there, the more people with this same (101) questions will be around here. That's why I already proposed that RED should make a sticky/PDF/wiki with what works and how!!!

I can imagine being an editor, get RED footage, have a tight deadline and spend three days researching what version of REDCINE you can use with what version of Quicktime with which FCP, etc. etc.

Pretty soon we will be receiving a lot of :angry03: :angry03: :angry03: editors!!!