Mac Mini vs New Imac for Red and Avid

[Michael Dalton]

Hi Guys,

Question for you. My Mac Pro died a horrible death and I'm looking for alternatives. I'm currently using a Mac Retna which is much powerful then my old Mac Pro (gen 1.1 intel)

The new IMac looks great, and should do well, but is not out for a few weeks, On paper is comparable to a beefed up Mac mini (fully loaded). Anyone using one with Avid and Red files. I think the drawback is the graphics card. Intel HD 400, can I use something more powerful with a Sonnet expansion card (I just ordered a Sonnet Pro). If so; any recommendations.

I like the idea of buying a new screen + Mac mini rather then a iMac next month as I can jump to new mac mini as they improve, or to a Mac Pro easier.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[Michael Dalton]

it seems like a quadro 4000 is out of the question because it is restricted by the number of lanes.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

You can not run run GPUs in a Thunderbolt expander -- it has to do with how the graphics driver interface is written in OSX, it is incompatible with graphics cards in certain PCIe cascade arrangements. That said, the latency and bandwidth would be restrictive for any primary graphics card over Thunderbolt. New video cards are 16 lanes of PCIe v3. One Thunderbolt port [currently] is the equivalent of 4 lanes of PCIe v2 and each device is only allowed half of that.

The new iMac with the GTX 680M 2GB GPU would be a great option. It will run circles around that old iMac 1,1 system you had. Only bad thing is it won't be shipping for another 3 to 6 weeks and probably in limited quantities at first. There have been rumors of delays, but it doesn't seem like there are going to be delays, just shortages. Looks like all the indicators point to production yields on those new super-thin LCD panels.

the Mac Mini would be good, but the GPU (Intel 4000) is just not what we need for serious video/ graphics work. For a temporary solution, the mini wouldn't be a bad option. You just won't get the added GPU acceleration in Premiere and a few other apps you may be using. It will probably be late march to mid-may before the new Mac Pro systems release. ...That based on Intel's CPU schedule.

a new iMac is not a bad option either. It's a bit more capable and has a beautiful screen -- I've seen the 21.5" version, it's really nice. If you decide to get a Mac Pro, the iMac can serve as a monitor with a built in secondary computer.

 

[Edward Hannigan]

You can not run run GPUs in a Thunderbolt expander -- it has to do with how the graphics driver interface is written in OSX, it is incompatible with graphics cards in certain PCIe cascade arrangements.)

Am I reading you correctly - you cannot run a GPU - like a RR - in a breakout box via Thunderbolt....? I could be confused and if so, apologize for the waste of bandwidth in advance

 

[Daniel Dacian]

The new iMAC 27" can be ordered with a GTX 680MX with 2GB of GDDR5 - that's 1536 cuda cores.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Am I reading you correctly - you cannot run a GPU - like a RR - in a breakout box via Thunderbolt....? I could be confused and if so, apologize for the waste of bandwidth in advance

You can run a RED ROCKET just fine. Although at half it's maximum potential interface speed. You can not run a graphics card such as a Quadro 4000 or GTX 680 due to restriction in the OSX graphics driver interface. Future releases of OSX may address this issue. You can run those graphics cards via Thunderbolt in Windows. It's an OSX limitation, not a hardware limitation.

However, like I said above, GPU cards like the Quadro, GeForce GTX, AMD/ATI Radeon... They are built to use 16 lanes on the PCIe bus and the latest cards like the GTX 6xx series and Quadro Kxxxx series are now PCIe v3.0. Thunderbolt is based on PCIe v2.0, which is slower. Current Thunderbolt ports are 20Gbps via two channels. Thunderbolt devices that connect to the ports are not allowed to access more than one channel, so they're limited to 10Gbps each. Thunderbolt gets an update to handle PCIe v3.0 signaling and up to 4 channels in 2014 with the Falcon Ridge controller. So at that point, we'll have to buy new cables and new Thunderbolt enclosure boxes, and...?

 

[Michael Dalton]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks. I think older or less powerful cards can run with few lanes, so that may be a temp option. I too like the look of the new IMac, but my hesitation is that your screen is locked in. I thought if a new mini comes out in 1-2 years and it's steps up, it's a very cheap upgrade. Also if Mac Pro comes out, I can also jump up easier. I don't see the next mac pro being a massive machine so it could be reasonable in price.

I was on a Mac Pro Intel 1.1, which the Mac Book pro retina seems to be three times faster. All in all I got six years out of it, and cut over 40 documentaries on it.

 

[Jamon Lewis]

Hey Jeff,

Slightly off topic maybe. About to buy a new basic work station and wondering if I should get a maxed out MBP Retina (2.6GHz Quad- i7 , 16Gb Ram, 768 GB Flash) OR Mac Mini (2.6GHz Quad- i7 , 16Gb Ram, 2-240GB SSD software Raid 0) and a BT Red Rocket (for relatively the same price, I know with the chassis the MM RR solution will be a bit more). The extra hard drive space isn't really an issue, I will just have apps on the local drive. What are your thoughts? Thnx

 

[Edward Hannigan]

You can run a RED ROCKET just fine. Although at half it's maximum potential interface speed. You can not run a graphics card such as a Quadro 4000 or GTX 680 due to restriction in the OSX graphics driver interface. Future releases of OSX may address this issue. You can run those graphics cards via Thunderbolt in Windows. It's an OSX limitation, not a hardware limitation.

However, like I said above, GPU cards like the Quadro, GeForce GTX, AMD/ATI Radeon... They are built to use 16 lanes on the PCIe bus and the latest cards like the GTX 6xx series and Quadro Kxxxx series are now PCIe v3.0. Thunderbolt is based on PCIe v2.0, which is slower. Current Thunderbolt ports are 20Gbps via two channels. Thunderbolt devices that connect to the ports are not allowed to access more than one channel, so they're limited to 10Gbps each. Thunderbolt gets an update to handle PCIe v3.0 signaling and up to 4 channels in 2014 with the Falcon Ridge controller. So at that point, we'll have to buy new cables and new Thunderbolt enclosure boxes, and...?

Thank you for the clarity on that !

 

[Michael Dalton]

Ok, So Avid works well on a mac mini! No slow downs in the interface. Have yet to render, but the big surprise is you can transcode 100gb of R3D's in about an hour in Avid which is not bad 1/2 good quality. About 3 times faster then my old mac pro intel 1.1. I have yet to see about after fx. Redcine will play 1/4 rez with 5k files.

I also bought a sonnet echo express pro box and am running my decklink extreme without any issues. I had hoped to run a GPU Graphics card, but no luck with the one I have, too fat, and needs additional power. Maybe next gen boxes.

All in all, I think it was a much better choice to replace a dead Mac Pro then buying a used older mac pro. Especially having thunderbolt and USB3. Now with a new 27 thunderbolt display if I jump to a new Mac Pro, the pinch won't hurt as much.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Good to know. I have been thinking about upgrading my almost 3 year old mini to the current gen quad core to also run redcine and avid mc6.5... you don't happen to know if i can grab my applications through time machine and put them on mountain lion without needing to reinstall them all? i currently am running lion and about to upgrade but would rather not do a clean install of my apps unless i really have to...