M8 (aka 008)...

[Steve Gibby]

There are three types of people in the world (and in this industry):

1) Those who make things happen

2) Those who watch (or simply criticize) what is happening

3) Those who wonder what the heck just happened

I'm a Type 1, as are each of our crew this past week, all of Red Team, and a huge percentage of the members of Red User. But unfortunately there is also no shortage in this industry (and in the world) of Types 2 and 3

 

[Greg Ephraim]

There are three types of people in the world (and in this industry):

1) Those who make things happen

2) Those who watch (or simply criticize) what is happening

3) Those who wonder what the heck just happened

Absolutely love this quote, it's entertaining watching type 1's reason with 2 and 3

 

[Ketch Rossi]

There are three types of people in the world (and in this industry):

1) Those who make things happen

2) Those who watch (or simply criticize) what is happening

3) Those who wonder what the heck just happened

I'm a Type 1, as are each of our crew this past week, all of Red Team, and a huge percentage of the members of Red User. But unfortunately there is also no shortage in this industry (and in the world) of Types 2 and 3

One of the coolest posts Steve


I jumped type 3 after the first time.

I become type 2 for long time. (just the watching part ) Occasionally Humping to Type 1.

I'm now very proud to be Type 1

 

[dino g]

I just wanted to take a second, and Thank the M8 crew; Steve Gibby, Ketch Rossi, Michael Thornton, and Joseph Hutson. And also to Thank Dean (Dino) Georgopoulos with his M87. You have put your work, experience, and money to make a series of TEST outside of RED’s control, it’s like an independent reaffirmation of everything Jim and Jarred have been saying, it’s always good, reaffirmation that is.

I, like many other people have been watching your TEST results from afar, keeping quiet, and just paying attention, “Thank Again”!

Humberto Rivera

thank you Humberto, you guys drive us, I think i can speak for gibby and ketch when i say that we feel very privileged to have these cameras early, but also an extreme sense of responsibility to "kick the tires" and report back to you guys. it is a great pleasure.

dino

 

[Steve Gibby]

I've had my head buried in work the past week and this is the first chance I've had to view the footage from M8...

I just want to echo the sentiments of most of the community and say thanks to Gibby, Ketch, and crew for sharing your test footage! As someone who was a (fairly) early adopter of Red but still had to wait 6 extra months to get the Red One, I can say test footage helps to quell the hunger ever so slightly. I really appreciate your efforts and those of every early adopter who takes the time to post test footage.

Thanks!

Omar

Thanks Omar! Good to hear from you...

Its now been over six months since we moved from the Central Coast. While there I enjoyed meeting up with you when we could match schedules, and helping answer your questions about Red One. When I get back over there from time to time, I'll give you a shout and bring an Epic with me so you can check it out, and shoot some shots with it. Epic will absolutely blow your mind my friend...

Me and Pam will c-ya sometime soon :thumbup:

 

[Steve Gibby]

thank you Humberto, you guys drive us, I think i can speak for gibby and ketch when i say that we feel very privileged to have these cameras early, but also an extreme sense of responsibility to "kick the tires" and report back to you guys. it is a great pleasure.

dino

Very true Dino...I second that. Rather than be selfish and horde the first impressions of these cameras to get the drop on our competitors, almost all of the early receivers of Red One, and now Epic have stepped forward to share the info. If the situations were reversed and we were the ones waiting and chomping at the bit to get an Epic, I'd like to think most others here would do the same thing we've been doing - take some time to post impressions, pics, and footage. Its also very good "karma" to do so...

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Id really like to see a red MX and Epic side by side.. same settings.. (epic can even be 5k.. red one 4k) but everything else the same..

alot of people here are saying how much better the epic looks.. it looks great.. but I cant really distinguish the difference between what you can get with a RED MX (in look, color, dr, so on..)

Both look the same to me.. both are GREAT looking image makers..

 

[Nick Gardner]

Well it's the same chip right? I would think they should look extremely similar if not the same at 4k.

Nick

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Id really like to see a red MX and Epic side by side.. same settings.. (epic can even be 5k.. red one 4k) but everything else the same..

alot of people here are saying how much better the epic looks.. it looks great.. but I cant really distinguish the difference between what you can get with a RED MX (in look, color, dr, so on..)

Both look the same to me.. both are GREAT looking image makers..

If some one is up to that, cool, I know I am not, I dislike this Technical stuff

Just don't like this tests form camera to camera in general, all I want to do is go and shoot

IMO they are both great cameras for different markets, the Red 1, was the king, now the King is EPIC!!

Too many differences form one to the other to be doing comparison tests, if the R1 is in your budget and fits
your shooting style, it will be more then plentiful resolution there to shoot anything you want.

For me the R1 even os I love it, was never that camera, possibly because I come from a Photography BG, and now
Epic has it all and more of what I want and need, including the Body Form, it is to me the perfect Camera Match
for my shooting needs and I will shoot relentlessly with it, stay tuned and see

 

[Steve Gibby]

True Zakaree...both Red One M-X and Epic are excellent image makers. The original M sensor Red One is also an excellent image maker, albeit with less dynamic range. Though the M-X red One has essentially the same chip, Epic is smaller (thus more mobile), shoots higher resolution (if you need/want that), shoots higher frame rates (if you need/want that), has more "horsepower" (read/reset time), boots faster (I'd estimate about 8 to 9 seconds), is more 3D friendly, has more EFP friendly features too, and has some other cool features an M-X Red One doesn't have. I think someone needs to clearly analyze the genres and styles they usually shoot in, then ask themselves if an upgrade to Epic is warranted and can be afforded.

The original Red One will always be a special camera to me. It broke down some barriers and resistance in the industry, set the industry onto a new competitive course, and delivered really well for me. The Epic is the next incarnation of my dream camera though. To each their own according to their needs.

A direct comparison between M-X and Epic? Me and our crew never set out to do that, but rather to simply put Epic into play out in some really trying lighting, temperature, and altitude conditions. We met that goal. Sooner or later I'd guess someone will do the type of comparison you mentioned. IMO what they'll find is that both are way potent tools in the hands of experienced professionals - IMO its really hard for someone to lose by adopting either camera - or the original M sensor Red One for that matter.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

agree with the form factor. Im just anxious to see the a&b to see exactly what differences there are image wise cant wait to play with it..

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

my question to you guys who took the epic out for the adventure.. what noticeable characteristics did you see. I know you shoot a bunch of nature, and have been shooting with your red one since day 1.. there was a definite jump in quality from the M to the MX! did you notice a huge leap in (LOOK) from the mx to the epic ? i know its the same chip so I cant really assume there was a huge difference except for maybe the compression...
i want to wrap my head around the differences for.. A camera B camera use..

I am in epic-x territory, and plan on keeping the ONE for my 2nd camera

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Epic has more everything when compared to Red ONe despite of the same MX senor, Epic is 5k .5k might not seem a lot, but it is.

Epic has up to and possibly past 18 Stops of Dynamic Range capacity with HDRx, Red 1 does not.

Lots of cookies still baking inside that oven that it is the Epic Brain, that will never Bake in the Red 1.

Epic is truly a Modular camera, red One is not.

However, if you shoot Epic standard mode, and want to intercut with Red 1 MX, I definitely believe that no one will notice the difference.

 

[Steve Gibby]

my question to you guys who took the epic out for the adventure.. what noticeable characteristics did you see. I know you shoot a bunch of nature, and have been shooting with your red one since day 1.. there was a definite jump in quality from the M to the MX! did you notice a huge leap in (LOOK) from the mx to the epic ? i know its the same chip so I cant really assume there was a huge difference except for maybe the compression...
i want to wrap my head around the differences for.. A camera B camera use..

I am in epic-x territory, and plan on keeping the ONE for my 2nd camera

Actually people identify me with my nature production, but throughout my career, and also with Red One, I've done extensive production in a lot of other genres besides nature. To name a few: alternative sports, mainstream sports, music, lifestyle, adventure travel, commercials, cultures, documentaries of various kinds, and high end business production. I've worked regularly as an executive producer, field producer, director, DP, cinematographer, and videographer. I've contributed to around 800 national and international TV programs that aired on 17 broadcast and cable networks.

I've also worked widely my entire career as a still photographer. I've worked just about equally in all of those genres. What they do have in common is EFP style production rather than cine style. I learned cine style clear back in the '70's, but polarized over to EFP style production in the early '80's.

I only relate the above so you can evaluate where I've drawn my following camera opinions from.

I listed some of the advantages of Epic over R1 MX in my last post. Here's some added opinions:

Will Epic 5k footage intercut well with 4k R1 MX, and 4k R1 M sensor footage? Yes, very well

Will an Epic as A camera, M-X as B camera kit be a good idea? Absolutely...

Will 4k Epic footage, and 4k R1 MX footage cut well with well-shot Scarlet 3k raw footage? Don't know yet, haven't shot with Scarlet. But my instincts are telling me the answer is yes, it will cut well together.

Can it be assumed that with both Epic and M-X, having close to the same chip, that you will notice a big difference between footage shot with both cameras? I don't have an answer for that - I haven't done a side-by-side field test in controlled conditions. Footage from both looks excellent, but Epic does have an advantage in getting certain types of shots and you can then shoot 5k which, all things being equal, obviously debayers down to a better looking file than debayered 4k from R1 MX

Is Epic for everyone? No - but if someone needs the many added capabilities of Epic, and can afford one, then by all means I'd suggest they step up to one.

Will R1 MX be around for a long time doing top-level production? Absolutely, IMO without question.

But Epic does have the advantages I noted (and more) in my previous post, and everyone needs to weigh out the pluses of Epic for their own business and what they shoot, then make an educated decision on whether they should move up to Epic. Those who do won't be disappointed.

Even now that Epic is shipping, nobody needs to feel like a "2nd class" citizen because they continue to shoot with a standard R1 or a R1 MX, Thats far from accurate! R1 and R1 MX will always be potent storytelling tools in the hands of experienced and skilled shooters.

The above are simply my own opinions...naturally subject to change looking forward

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Zak, speaking strictly in terms of image quality (ergonomics, frame rates, etc aside), from what I have observed the Epic image has more detail, looks cleaner with less compression, better processing. Having said that, the Epic images I've looked at were being filmed with Master Primes, something I don't get the privilege of shooting with too often. That will certainly help any camera.

But seriously, there is a difference in image quality. The good news is, as Steve said these should cut together fine. And R1 when used properly will shoot great images for a long time.

I'd be more than happy to do a comparison shoot, but getting time with an Epic might be a little tough these days.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I guess I dont see how we would notice compression differences on macbook pros..
and seeing as it is a MX sensor.. the image itself would be similar to the current ONE MX cameras.

I do however see the benefit of less compression for a film out.

and yes.. master primes could certainly be the cleaner image you might have seen.
but im talking out of my ass until i do a real side by side..

bottom line.. red one mx can match up with epic.. good!

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I can say I was not looking at Epic images on macbook pro

But nonetheless, I don't have any scientific comparison, so in a way I'm talking out my rear as well.

The true trick would be to get the cameras side by side with same lenses, same lighting, same everything and do a comparison. Then project them.

 

[dino g]

i work everyday until next thursday, some with epic some with r1mx and some with both. ill be able to answer your questions better then.

sorry so short, when i get in work mode it is up at 5, home very late quick shower and in the rack to do it all again, for those who grew up in new england in the 70's and 80's you will remember the "time to make the donuts" commercials and i swear every morning when i sneak out of bed to get ready to leave the house at 5am...i feel like that guy and that line rings in my head over and over again...

i will also say that i have had the camera for 6 days and had 3 new software builds, so what i think about the camera today will be different tomorrow. for the early r1 guys you remember this cycle very well, for r1 we went from build 1 to build 12 in like 8 weeks...so if there is one thing you can count on in my experience with red is, if you like it now, you will like it better tomorrow.

good night.

time to make the donuts.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Im just anxious to see the a&b to see exactly what differences there are image wise cant wait to play with it..

Projected on a large screen - it is shocking. The key difference is detail. I'm blown away every day. I'll be back posting lots soon - funny thing happens when get an EPIC - being on the internet is lot less exciting.

 

[paulherrin]

speaking of keys... have you shot any visual effects shots? if not, do you want to plan one? also, where is the key to life found?