Luma Tech Illuminas vs. the new Cooke Panchros...a review

[Paul Nordin]

I think we are getting off track. Clint, reading Jacek's original comment I don't believe he was pointing it at TImur. I think Timur's comment about quality sparked the general comment by Jacek.

Back on track...

Timur, I really get where you are coming from. The Panchros have an outstanding build quality, in as much as one can judge by exterior attention to detail. And with the pedigree of the S4s and S5s behind them one can reasonably assume that their attention to detail extends to what you can't see.
That said, the build quality of the Illuminas may not have the same beauty, but I could not find anything to be suspect. The focus and iris rings moved smoothly...they were just a bit more firm but not to the point where I was thinking it would be a problem. Nothing rattled, the focus was pretty stable on the projector. So the only real difference I could see from the outside and playing with them was more one of style. Unfortunately, there is no history behind the Illuminas that can be pointed to for how they will hold up over time.

What would be awesome is if someone who is a lens tech could break one down and look under the hood, and provide some feedback on ease of maintenance and quality of the internal structures.

 

[Clint Lealos]

Timur compalins about lenses with poor quality. Then you say people are unfairly "bitching" (not a very flattering word choice) about lens quality. You admit you are responding to his post, but deny that you are referring to him? Sounds confusing, no?

Its not important. I just thought you could be more respectful is all. Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Let's agree to disagree

 

[Clint Lealos]

Please don't shut down this thread. It is much too useful. I will refrain from commenting further

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

What would be awesome is if someone who is a lens tech could break one down and look under the hood, and provide some feedback on ease of maintenance and quality of the internal structures.

That's really the key. All cine lenses, contrary to the popular opinion, are very high maintenance items. Constantly cleaned, refocused, disassembled and regreased, winterized, summerized etc. Periodically overhauled. Precision comes with (high) price tag. No way around it yet. I've worked on many Optars over the years and they are not very tech friendly- for different reasons. Fred insists that the new Illuminas are world apart from the old Optars. Lets hope so....

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

That's really the key. All cine lenses, contrary to the popular opinion, are very high maintenance items. Constantly cleaned, refocused, disassembled and regreased, winterized, summerized etc. Periodically overhauled. Precision comes with (high) price tag. No way around it yet. I've worked on many Optars over the years and they are not very tech friendly- for different reasons. Fred insists that the new Illuminas are world apart from the old Optars. Lets hope so....

How were the Optars difficult?

What has to happen to get some of these lenses in your hands Jacek, or Matt Duclos?

 

[Fred Salaff]

The Optars are not made by LOMO. Therefore, any comparisons between the Optars and the Illuminas is not realistic.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Fred,
Good to see you lurking here.
Can you explain once and for all the difference? I thought Optars (they used to be called Illumina didn't they?) were made in the same factory.
Where are Elites made?
I think everyone here will benefit from knowing that. There is so much mystery about the Russian optics...

 

[paul engstrom]

T2.8 or not, build quality was important to me. I gnashed my teeth debating over the T1.3 illuminas for a year and a half, while raising funds to purchase lenses.

The cookes have a pedigree of build quality. That was important. I've been boned on jobs by lenses that just sieze of mechanichally come apart at the seems.

Hey Timur,

Yeah I've been kind of on the same trajectory as you (except that if I ultimately decide T2.8 primes are the best of the cheaper primes, I will probably go for Optimo zooms instead). My understanding is that we are looking at 'the next version' of Illuminas now -- different than what they had being tested around N. America until just a couple months ago (ie. NAB). The older set(s) were kind of their first kick at it, whereas now we're looking at their improved models. And along those lines, we're seeing different grease, thicker metal in some of the barrels, etc. to get the mechanics where they ought to be.

I could be wrong here, by the way (in which case I'll want to come back and edit this), but that's my understanding.

thanks to Timur and Paul for both sharing what they've been finding in their pursuit of decent lower cost lenses.

Regards,
P

 

[Fred Salaff]

Optar Illuminas (Super 16mm and renamed S16 Illuminas) are made at the Krasnogorsk Zavod factory outside of Moscow.
The Elite lenses are made at the Optika-Elite factory in St. Petersburg. The Super 35mm Illuminas are made
at the LOMO factory in St. Petersburg.
All three factories are separate entities.

Gregory Mirand, president of Luma Tech, an optical and camera technician based in Toronto and South Florida worked with the
Krasnogorsk factory in the development of the Optar Illuminas in the early 1990's. These lenses have sold extremely well since
approx 1995 and are still being shipped now by Luma Tech, Inc. Optika-Elite came out about five years after the Optars and I
honestly do not know much about these lenses or the company and have even heard that the company has or will be going out
of business soon.

When the Optar Illuminas first came out Mitch Gross said the following in 2003 on the Cinematography.net forum:

The Illumina’s are a little older technology, about a decade old. The Elites are about five years old.
These are not two product lines from the same company but in fact separate products from separate outfits.

I own a set of Illumina’s and they are terrific. They have a slightly warmer, smoother contrast look than the Zeiss glass,
similar to the difference between Cooke and Zeiss. I think the lenses are top notch and I'd put my 12mm up against a Zeiss
12mm any day. The lenses have excellent color and contrast, are very flare resistant and corner to corner resolution is very
high. Early Optars had mechanical housing issues (as did some of the Elites) but these are all cleared up now.

One of the major benefits from both Illumina’s and Elites is that they were designed from the beginning for Super-16
coverage. The Zeiss lenses so happened to cover S-16, but that doesn't mean they'd do so particularly well. Some Zeiss
9.5mm lenses cover, some don't. And many 9.5mm and 12mm Zeiss’s distort and suffer poor corner resolution and chromatic
aberration in the S-16 areas. And of course the Illumina 8mm is designed for S-16 and the Zeiss cannot cover this.

I have only briefly tested the Elite and Optex lenses, so I cannot fairly compare them to the Illumina’s. They all appeared to
be excellent glass. A real test would include putting them up side by side on lens projectors and comparing color, contrast
and resolution. But I can say that I'm very happy with my Illumina’s and would recommend them to anyone.

Mitch Gross
NYC DP

Mr. Mirand began the development of the S35 Illuminas about two years ago as a joint venture with LOMO of St. Petersburg.
Like all early versions of cinema lenses problems arose, customers gave their two cents and Mr. Mirand and LOMO listened
and incorporated improvements on a continuing basis. Current shipments reflect a terrific product...in mechanical and
optical performance and aesthetics at a truly remarkable price, especially considering that the Illuminas are all a very bright
T1.3.


In approximately three months Luma Tech will be offering a 135mm T1.6 Illumina with 95mm front and by November a 14mm
Illumina with 95mm front. T stop not yet confirmed for this lens. Plans for 2012 will be the introduction of Illumina anamorphics.

It is the desire of Mr. Mirand, Luma Tech and LOMO to deliver high quality, super fast lenses for the professional cinematographer
at an affordable price. LOMO's reputation in optical manufacturing is extremely well known and the the Illuminas have been built
with the most modern lens designs, using German Schott glass (same as Zeiss), while meeting the demands of the market place.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

Hey Jacek,

What is your recommendation for frequency of lens maintenance. And you don't have to list your price here, but what price range should one expect per lens each time maintenance is performed?

This is good to understand and factor into the budget, as I agree with you - there is no point in buying a Ferrari (i.e. Cooke, Optimo, Leica, etc) and then not taking proper care of it.

Anthony

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Hard to tell Anthony.
Depends how much they work and in what conditions. It's easy for rental houses- each lens goes through incoming inspection after every job.
For owner/operators they have to get to know their lenses real well and be on the paranoid side for service. Usually when the image deteriorates enough to see through the viewfinder it's repair time=expensive

 

[Mark Toia]

Hi Paul,

Great thread!!!

The lastest Illuminas are great. but here is the only real problem with them. But not enough to discourage me from purchasing. (I have)

POST PRODUCTION.
The Lens flare from the Illumines look great, the flares create a very beautiful mood, I love it in fact. BUT!!!!! you if want to do a special effect shot, matt paint or 3d composite shot etc.. then you are in a world of hurt if you have lens flare over the shot, and shooting 3d. you end up with 2 lots of flares not one.
Composting over or under a flare can become very very annoying to say the least.

You can cut flare away, box out flare, matt box, barn door it etc.. but again, that can become tiresome as well on set when your in a rush.
But that all said, you don't get flare in them unless you push light directly into them like the tests you did. but they are susceptible to it more than others.... but it's looks cool on the same breath.

I have a creative bunch of lenses and the Illumines fit in the category, they are like my bright art lenses.. I have hasslebald shift and tilts etc.. all great for creating a gorgeous mood. This art mood is what my clients pay for.
And .. I have a set of Primes that are flare resistant, just in case I want or need a shoot FLARE free for any super clean effects shots. Or if I use the Illumines, I just make sure I cut any flare from getting near the lenses elements. So in fact you can use them for anything,but just protect the lens from light when you getting critical with a shot.

Note: Good all rounders
THE RED PRIMES are amazing flare resistant, pin sharp, little to no distortion, they are really worth looking at. Seriously, they are real giant killers. F1.9 ( I wish they were 1.2 myself) but very very cheap horse power. mechanically perfect, F1.9 is still very bright.
I put these side by side with Master primes all the time, I can never see the difference.

Thats my 5 cents worth.

 

[Steve Das]

...THE RED PRIMES are amazing flare resistant, pin sharp, little to no distortion, they are really worth looking at. Seriously, they are real giant killers. F1.9 ( I wish they were 1.2 myself) but very very cheap horse power. mechanically perfect, F1.9 is still very bright.
I put these side by side with Master primes all the time, I can never see the difference....

Thanks..great post...Do you own a set of Red Primes also..?

 

[Timur Civan]

Lenses seize or fall apart at the seams because they are poorly maintained. It's natural to poorly maintain cheap lenses but, unfortunately, it's counter intuitive.
The reality is that those who purchase them can't afford proper maintenance and service and, as result, lenses fail one way or another.
It's taken to another level with still lenses, since they are cheap, purchased used online and never serviced after 20+ years in someones camera bag.
Than these guys go online and bi$%h how poorly they perform. Go figure.....

By "these guys" do you mean Timur Civan? I would point out Jacek that Timur is a well respected DP, not some amatuer hack who never maintains his lenses like your post implies. I think his input is valid even if you disagree. His point was simple... Better made lenses last longer. No need to accuse him of something you can't prove, like not maintaining or servicing his lenses.

No offense taken man,

I read it as, "Some folks dont maintain their equipment then wonder why it doesnt work" I think he was speaking in general. Not to me.

FWIW, the lenses that were giving me trouble were and ancient set of poorly maintained Lomos i used on a feature a few years ago. I own a lomo amamorphic, and have been trying to get it maintained, but noone will touch it. :/ I like that lens.... too bad... In general, the sentiment from rental houses and lens techs is that the lens is unrepairable because its metal is to soft/thin to make patches for its problems. Old design. These Illuminas were made in the last few years. they should be pretty solid. I made the quality statement because if im investing what is in general a middle class yearly salary, in lenses, i want them to last till the end of time. I personally feel cookes will do just that. As will ARRI, and the new Leicas. Its just top shelf mechanics, and you pay for it....

HEy Fred.... Illumina Anamorphics ehh?

 

[Clint Lealos]

Looks like I was way off the mark on this one. I usually don't speak until I am certain I have a valid argument, but it looks like I read Jacek's post differently then everyone else. I think I owe you an apology Jacek. I'm sorry for jumping down your throat... no hard feelings?

 

[Mark Toia]

Also...
Lets put into perspective real world shooting and lens choices this modern day and age.
Since shooting RED, I'm now using lenses I would once have left on the shelf or not even flinched in using.
I've always been a ARRI Master Prime man.. thats was it. (and S4 Cookes) nothing less than those two for me..

Since the invention of RED my favourite lens for the camera is now the Ziess MK3 super speeds.
Why.. because RED is so sharp and clean. Were 35mm film needed sharp optics RED does not. Film is soft compared to RED, it needed pin sharp optics to get it to ping! and to get clean edges for Keys. etc .

Illumines and the Ziess MK3's in my eyes look amazing on RED, the creaminess of those two lenses are what make RED images look even better again.
And the saving grace is the image is still sharp and you can make it even sharper in post again.

Best features from both are there size, dimensions, weight, and F stop brightness. (shallow depth of field)
They tick way to many boxes for me to ignore.

With the EPIC.. I'd never need anything else.
There is some cheap Glass out there.. But that word does not reflect the quality of Illumines.

I wouldn't hesitate. Once you own and use Bright glass, you will never use anything else after that.
F2.8 Primes... ? why. Buy a ZOOM.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

THE RED PRIMES are amazing flare resistant, pin sharp, little to no distortion, they are really worth looking at. Seriously, they are real giant killers. F1.9 ( I wish they were 1.2 myself) but very very cheap horse power. mechanically perfect, F1.9 is still very bright.
I put these side by side with Master primes all the time, I can never see the difference.

Thats my 5 cents worth.

Yes. Just yes. On the last TVC I shot I had a set of Master Primes because my SuperSpeeds don't fit really into that sharp and shiny look that I had to achieve. The rental house added a RPP 35mm to the set with the remark to eventually test it side by side to the Master Prime 35mm. I knew that I won't find time for such a test but said yes. On set I had a detail shot where the Master Prime delivered not enough close focus. Fortunately I remembered that we had the RPP in the box and asked the assistant to slap it on. Its closer focus made my shot and intercut very well into all the other Master Prime originated footage. Optically very good lenses. No nice flare though.

Hans

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

Since the invention of RED my favourite lens for the camera is now the Ziess MK3 super speeds.
Why.. because RED is so sharp and clean. Were 35mm film needed sharp optics RED does not. Film is soft compared to RED, it needed pin sharp optics to get it to ping! and to get clean edges for Keys. etc .

Same for me. Will keep them until the world comes to an end.

Hans

Side note: Cooke S4s are prone to create CA on a Red. Not good in a green box. SuperSpeeds don't do that.

 

[Jason Diamond]

Mark,
I couldn't agree with you more about MK3 Superspeeds.

We use SuperSpeeds on our Epic alot and CREAMY is the word. The combo of the smoothness of the MK3's and the sharp detail from the EPIC is a match made in heaven.

Jason

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Same for me. Will keep them until the world comes to an end.

Hans

Side note: Cooke S4s are prone to create CA on a Red. Not good in a green box. SuperSpeeds don't do that.

Its cool you like the supers and all... BUT CA (green/magenta depending on where you focus) is very obvious on RED and Alexa.