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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lull...

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Thanks for the update, Jim. I can't wait to hear how the test went!!!
 
Jannard said:
Back from a two week test... should have more EPIC news soon.

Jim
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Thank goodness for that. The last we heard from you was, "just talk amongst yourselves a moment" and we can see how that went :wink5:
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Alex, this little clip from the fixed lens Scarlet is the only thing we've seen: http://red.cachefly.net/focus_8.mov
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Let's stop focusing on whether or not Red has broken "promises" of certain release dates. Let's focus on all the unsubstantiated hype.

Above is a two second clip of a lens, with next to no movement and very visible grain in the background. This is not adequate example footage.

I will be the first to congratulate Jannard and the Red team, but first they actually have to start showing us true examples of what the equipment is capable of, not spec sheets that change every day and the unending speculation of everyone on this board.

Sorry, I support what Red is doing, but I would love for there to be a shift in what this community expects. I take everything Jannard says with a grain of salt - THIS IS WHAT HIS SIGNATURE ASKS US TO DO. ("everything is subject to change, count on it")

Show us something. And more than two seconds. And more than a static, grainy shot.
 
Devin Forbes said:
Let's stop focusing on whether or not Red has broken "promises" of certain release dates. Let's focus on all the unsubstantiated hype.

Above is a two second clip of a lens, with next to no movement and very visible grain in the background. This is not adequate example footage.

I will be the first to congratulate Jannard and the Red team, but first they actually have to start showing us true examples of what the equipment is capable of, not spec sheets that change every day and the unending speculation of everyone on this board.

Sorry, I support what Red is doing, but I would love for there to be a shift in what this community expects. I take everything Jannard says with a grain of salt - THIS IS WHAT HIS SIGNATURE ASKS US TO DO. ("everything is subject to change, count on it")

Show us something. And more than two seconds. And more than a static, grainy shot.
Click to expand...

I think the point of that clip was to showcase both a working Scarlet and a working Canon mount, I don't think it was meant as a an example of breathtaking footage...
 
Devin Forbes said:
Let's stop focusing on whether or not Red has broken "promises" of certain release dates. Let's focus on all the unsubstantiated hype.

Above is a two second clip of a lens, with next to no movement and very visible grain in the background. This is...
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Haha. Remind me not to show you any of my cool tech demos. My last one was a pure white screen. I was really excited that it wasn't black because of what it meant. :D

There are "tech demos" and then there are Tech Demos. The focus video falls firmly into the former. It's a fun status update to demonstrate that it's doing something--anything. When you're creating something from scratch that's really exciting because often even a completely broken implementation is a big breakthrough.

If you aren't interested in seeing WIP blog updates then stop paying attention. Don't worry, I'm sure someone will let you know when you should start paying attention.

It would be like building a car from scratch and turning the ignition and having the engine start. Sure there is no transmission or suspension but it's cool that it just starts.
 
Devin Forbes said:
Let's stop focusing on whether or not Red has broken "promises" of certain release dates. Let's focus on all the unsubstantiated hype.

Above is a two second clip of a lens, with next to no movement and very visible grain in the background. This is not adequate example footage.

I will be the first to congratulate Jannard and the Red team, but first they actually have to start showing us true examples of what the equipment is capable of, not spec sheets that change every day and the unending speculation of everyone on this board.

Sorry, I support what Red is doing, but I would love for there to be a shift in what this community expects. I take everything Jannard says with a grain of salt - THIS IS WHAT HIS SIGNATURE ASKS US TO DO. ("everything is subject to change, count on it")

Show us something. And more than two seconds. And more than a static, grainy shot.
Click to expand...

I can see the frustation you feel for not having a release date and the way the Red Team works. It has it's pros and cons. The main pro, most misunderstood imho, is that they share what they are doing with all of us. They show us bits and pieces of what they are achieving because they know we love to speculate and to show us how the developement is in process.
The cons is that almost no other company in the world does this. They keep a quiet silence, make an announcment and some time later release a product... Ok, it's fine and everybody must choose what they prefer. I certainly feel a part of this company thanks to their process. For the other companies, they just have an agenda and if we like their product, we pay for them.

About the Fixed Scarlet clip, I remember Jim or Jared telling they shot that in available light (some ceiling flos, I think) maybe not enough light. Any other company wouldn't show that 'cause people would have jumped over. With this company, was a nice message to all those people who had no news in the Fixed Scarlet development: "we have proptotypes working". When they have a footage that can show what they want to achieve with that camera in particular, they will show, don't worry.

In the end it's always the same. You want what Red is going to offer you (which will exceed all your expectations)? Then you may play with their rules, like with any other company.

Cheers everybody and hoping for the news about the 2 week EPIC test!
 
Jordi Figueras said:
I can see the frustation you feel for not having a release date and the way the Red Team works. It has it's pros and cons. The main pro, most misunderstood imho, is that they share what they are doing with all of us. They show us bits and pieces of what they are achieving because they know we love to speculate and to show us how the developement is in process.
The cons is that almost no other company in the world does this. They keep a quiet silence, make an announcment and some time later release a product... Ok, it's fine and everybody must choose what they prefer. I certainly feel a part of this company thanks to their process. For the other companies, they just have an agenda and if we like their product, we pay for them.

About the Fixed Scarlet clip, I remember Jim or Jared telling they shot that in available light (some ceiling flos, I think) maybe not enough light. Any other company wouldn't show that 'cause people would have jumped over. With this company, was a nice message to all those people who had no news in the Fixed Scarlet development: "we have proptotypes working". When they have a footage that can show what they want to achieve with that camera in particular, they will show, don't worry.

In the end it's always the same. You want what Red is going to offer you (which will exceed all your expectations)? Then you may play with their rules, like with any other company.

Cheers everybody and hoping for the news about the 2 week EPIC test!
Click to expand...

Liam Hall said:
I think the point of that clip was to showcase both a working Scarlet and a working Canon mount, I don't think it was meant as a an example of breathtaking footage...
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Exactly.

People need to relax a bit...

:violent5:
 
Devin Forbes said:
Let's stop focusing on whether or not Red has broken "promises" of certain release dates. Let's focus on all the unsubstantiated hype.

Above is a two second clip of a lens, with next to no movement and very visible grain in the background. This is not adequate example footage.

I will be the first to congratulate Jannard and the Red team, but first they actually have to start showing us true examples of what the equipment is capable of, not spec sheets that change every day and the unending speculation of everyone on this board.

Sorry, I support what Red is doing, but I would love for there to be a shift in what this community expects. I take everything Jannard says with a grain of salt - THIS IS WHAT HIS SIGNATURE ASKS US TO DO. ("everything is subject to change, count on it")

Show us something. And more than two seconds. And more than a static, grainy shot.
Click to expand...

The technology going into these cameras is not unsubstantiated hype. Many of us have been following Red since the R1 was first announced.
We have witnessed step by step the hard won progress towards an ideal of reasonably affordable professional motion camera systems with true high end world class performance.
We have seen Red One progress from the prototypes that Soderbergh used to shoot Che 1 & 2 to the newest MX version that is arguably at least on par with the very best most expensive digital motion cameras available with a unique and exceptional combination of resolution, dynamic range, and the creative flexibility of practical raw acquisition.
We have seen free Red software completely rewritten for Redcine-X evolve through 260+ alpha builds in less than a year with significant improvements in every aspect of image quality for Red footage, even two year old footage originally shot on the M sensor. We have seen this new color science and image processing capability incorporated into the latest most advanced major NLE programs so Red footage can be opened and edited directly just like more common video formats: real time without transcoding.
The new cameras are the next evolution of this whole process.
 
David Rasberry said:
The technology going into these cameras is not unsubstantiated hype. Many of us have been following Red since the R1 was first announced.
We have witnessed step by step the hard won progress towards an ideal of reasonably affordable professional motion camera systems with true high end world class performance.
We have seen Red One progress from the prototypes that Soderbergh used to shoot Che 1 & 2 to the newest MX version that is arguably at least on par with the very best most expensive digital motion cameras available with a unique and exceptional combination of resolution, dynamic range, and the creative flexibility of practical raw acquisition.
We have seen free Red software completely rewritten for Redcine-X evolve through 260+ alpha builds in less than a year with significant improvements in every aspect of image quality for Red footage, even two year old footage originally shot on the M sensor. We have seen this new color science and image processing capability incorporated into the latest most advanced major NLE programs so Red footage can be opened and edited directly just like more common video formats: real time without transcoding.
The new cameras are the next evolution of this whole process.
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Bravo!

And that's why we love RED.
 
I get what you all are saying, and I admit that I didn't know the context of that two second video. So that makes sense, and that IS an interesting little tidbit to throw at the Red community.

So I guess my frustration comes down to a few things,

1) We have been provided no 'impressive' footage from these cameras (that I know of), or at least something that moves around and shows a subject in a variety of environments. All I've ever seen are two shots of static lizards, and that lens video. They were all incredibly short, camera nor subject moved, and they were web-compressed so resolution was out the window.

2) Despite the neglect of releasing footage beyond "IT WORKS" moments, people on this forum freak out at every little thing and speculate speculate speculate speculate speculate, and talk about how amazing a camera it will be. Even though all they've seen are spec sheets that are several months old and most likely changed eight times.

3) Regardless, people continue to parade around the forum talking about how awesome the cameras are, unfazed when they find out the camera is being delayed for the third year, or that #21 was accidentally on the Scarlet list and shouldn't be there.

I agree, I think in theory these cameras will be awesome. But all we have are incomplete/vague spec sheets to talk about, and speculation of the implementation of these features.

That's cool and everything, I just want to see proof that these cameras can do what Red says they can do. Im sure there are tests with moving subjects as well, why couldn't they release those?

So I guess what I'm getting at is - if they are going to show us small milestones and get the community buzzing about the cameras, then actually show us something impressive instead of just telling us it's impressive.

Also just a side note, I disagree with the practice of deleting all posts that are remotely dissenting of Red. I think it creates a very unrealistic community of people.
 
Devin, remember M-X is out shooting films right now. Speculation is not without base, the sensor exists.

You want proof of how awesome these cameras will be? There are a lot of films shot on RED and some shot on M-X... Just watch them.

Proof of how awesome the FEATURES will be? Well, that we'll see only after release.

Notice that speculation is just one ritual of this community of acquaintances and friends, people have fun speculating and talking about RED cameras and technology.
 
Devin Forbes said:
So I guess what I'm getting at is - if they are going to show us small milestones and get the community buzzing about the cameras, then actually show us something impressive instead of just telling us it's impressive.
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Have you ever tried demanding any other company to rush their release schedule or modify their marketing approach to suit you?

This is all very simple really. Do you have an alternative to the RED or the SCARLET or whatever, today, that you can afford, use, and succeed with?

If the answer is yes, you don't need to be on these forums. You can be out there with that tool working.

I personally am VERY interested in the information flow that comes out - and am fully understanding of the fact that for competitive, legal, marketing strategy, and myriad other reasons, RED cannot give us ALL the information THEY have. But they give us what they can. And that's fine by me. I realize the cameras will ship when they are ready, and until then, I'm enjoying the ride.
 
Devin Forbes said:
I get what you all are saying, and I admit that I didn't know the context of that two second video. So that makes sense, and that IS an interesting little tidbit to throw at the Red community.

So I guess my frustration comes down to a few things,

1) We have been provided no 'impressive' footage from these cameras (that I know of), or at least something that moves around and shows a subject in a variety of environments. All I've ever seen are two shots of static lizards, and that lens video. They were all incredibly short, camera nor subject moved, and they were web-compressed so resolution was out the window.

2) Despite the neglect of releasing footage beyond "IT WORKS" moments, people on this forum freak out at every little thing and speculate speculate speculate speculate speculate, and talk about how amazing a camera it will be. Even though all they've seen are spec sheets that are several months old and most likely changed eight times.

3) Regardless, people continue to parade around the forum talking about how awesome the cameras are, unfazed when they find out the camera is being delayed for the third year, or that #21 was accidentally on the Scarlet list and shouldn't be there.

I agree, I think in theory these cameras will be awesome. But all we have are incomplete/vague spec sheets to talk about, and speculation of the implementation of these features.

That's cool and everything, I just want to see proof that these cameras can do what Red says they can do. Im sure there are tests with moving subjects as well, why couldn't they release those?

So I guess what I'm getting at is - if they are going to show us small milestones and get the community buzzing about the cameras, then actually show us something impressive instead of just telling us it's impressive.

Also just a side note, I disagree with the practice of deleting all posts that are remotely dissenting of Red. I think it creates a very unrealistic community of people.
Click to expand...

didn't greg williams recently shoot on a hotty on the epic?

good things come to those who wait, nagging get you anywhere. your comments won't change anything, so relax.
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
Devin, remember M-X is out shooting films right now. Speculation is not without base, the sensor exists.

You want proof of how awesome these cameras will be? There are a lot of films shot on RED and some shot on M-X... Just watch them.

Proof of how awesome the FEATURES will be? Well, that we'll see only after release.
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I know, but the sensor isn't everything. Implementation is important, and it happens to be the point where I stop having faith. Remember the Red One, and how poorly implemented that awesome technology was?

I'm not telling them to rush, I'm saying show us something.
 
Devin Forbes said:
I know, but the sensor isn't everything. Implementation is important, and it happens to be the point where I stop having faith. Remember the Red One, and how poorly implemented that awesome technology was?

I'm not telling them to rush, I'm saying show us something.
Click to expand...

And that's the point of the delay. Proper implementation.

RED's experience gathered so far and proper time to test everything will result in a much more polished product than RED One was at launch.
 
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