Lto for mac

[flaminio]

As warwickt pointed out, you can alter your PCIe allocations. 4X is more then plenty to operate an LTO-4.

I understand that. But it was an 8X card, and I was wondering the performance loss if any by running 4x. That was my question. It seems I'll just get the ATTO raid card and run one port on the tape drive and the other for the eSATA box.

If I understood you right, you are going to be connecting 4 individual eSATA units. Why not use a single enclosure that holds 4 drives? If that's the case, you really should consider a single enclosure that holds 4 or more drives. As opposed to using 4 individually contained, individually powered drives. That's just not a good way to go about doing a reliable RAID setup.

Well, the reason is so I didn't have to buy another piece of gear. warwickt I think explained it well and I do plan to get an eSATA box to hold four drives. I'll probably buy two drives new drives, thinking Seagate es-2 1TB drives, and put two of my external drives in there, and leave one external 1 TB drive as a backup/floater. I'm waiting to see if I can cancel my order on 3 additional 1.5 TB drives for this new overall solution. Thanks

 

[jeff@uptown6.com]

I've been using a Quantum LTO 4 HH to do my backups and it works great. My question is about LTO 4 tape media - I've make 12 unique backups so far onto Sony LTO 4 tape media and out of those 12, 2 of the Sony tapes brought up the error "bad media" on my system so I sent them in to Sony and they promptly replaced them with good media.

Has anyone else had this problem with Sony media? What is the best brand of LTO 4 media?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Brian Langeman]

This is a really good thread. I'm looking into getting a RAID array setup now, and LTO-4 in the near future. I have onw of the older Mac Pros. One of the 2 dual core 3 Ghz. The nVidia Quadro FX 4500 is installed along with a Blackmagic Multibridge Pro for HD-SDI and HDMI out capabilities.

I think the RAID setup I want to get is the Proavio EB8MS so I can handle uncompressed HD material. For a RAID controller, I think the Atto ExpressSAS R380 looks pretty good. The Proavio RAID Array requires 2 SAS cables to run all 8 disks though, so both ports on the RAID controller card would be used up, and I'd need another card for running the HP LTO-4 Ultrium 1840. I couldn't just unplug the RAID Array and plug in the LTO drive, because the files I want to archive or backup are from the RAID Array.

So a couple questions. Is it alright to run the Quadro FX 4500 in only 8 lanes? Cause I'm gonna have to do that. Do I need to put the RAID Array in an 8 lane slot to get the full speed benefits?

I think the Blackmagic will run ok on 4 lanes even though it says it's running below the maximum. Seems to be working ok.

This looks like the best option:

PCIE SLOT 4: 4x Blackmagic Multibridge Pro
PCIE SLOT 3: 4x Atto R380 - HP LTO-4 Ultrium 1840 SAS External Tape Drive
PCIE SLOT 2: 8x Atto R380 - Proavio 4 TB EB8MS running on RAID 0
PCIE SLOT 1: 8x NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500

Will this setup work?

 

[warwickt]

I understand that. But it was an 8X card, and I was wondering the performance loss if any by running 4x. That was my question. It seems I'll just get the ATTO raid card and run one port on the tape drive and the other for the eSATA box.

Hi Flamino, the x4 slot will work ok for YOUR application with 4 x DDms and your SAS tape drive. Remember how many devices SAS targets the HBA supports!.

If you think about it, the bandwidth you need across each device is far less than the aggreaget bandwidth of the CRAD adthe PCI-E arrangement..

It works fine.

w

 

[warwickt]

I've been using a Quantum LTO 4 HH to do my backups and it works great. My question is about LTO 4 tape media - I've make 12 unique backups so far onto Sony LTO 4 tape media and out of those 12, 2 of the Sony tapes brought up the error "bad media" on my system so I sent them in to Sony and they promptly replaced them with good media.

Has anyone else had this problem with Sony media? What is the best brand of LTO 4 media?

Thanks,
Jeff

HI Jeff.. hmm thats a shame. The SONY media is usually OK.

If you are running windah's OS.. you may want to check the QUANTUM TAPE utility and see of the SSA tape drive needs a clean. Maybe this will help.

I use OSx so I cant monitor this on my QUANTUM tape drive.

I use mostly HP ULtrium LTO4 C797A. its fine.. SOny is ok too.

Whats your archive software you are using?

w

 

[warwickt]

This is a really good thread. I'm looking into getting a RAID array setup now, and LTO-4 in the near future. I have onw of the older Mac Pros. One of the 2 dual core 3 Ghz. The nVidia Quadro FX 4500 is installed along with a Blackmagic Multibridge Pro for HD-SDI and HDMI out capabilities.

I think the RAID setup I want to get is the Proavio EB8MS so I can handle uncompressed HD material. For a RAID controller, I think the Atto ExpressSAS R380 looks pretty good. The Proavio RAID Array requires 2 SAS cables to run all 8 disks though, so both ports on the RAID controller card would be used up, and I'd need another card for running the HP LTO-4 Ultrium 1840. I couldn't just unplug the RAID Array and plug in the LTO drive, because the files I want to archive or backup are from the RAID Array.

So a couple questions. Is it alright to run the Quadro FX 4500 in only 8 lanes? Cause I'm gonna have to do that. Do I need to put the RAID Array in an 8 lane slot to get the full speed benefits?

I think the Blackmagic will run ok on 4 lanes even though it says it's running below the maximum. Seems to be working ok.

This looks like the best option:

PCIE SLOT 4: 4x Blackmagic Multibridge Pro
PCIE SLOT 3: 4x Atto R380 - HP LTO-4 Ultrium 1840 SAS External Tape Drive
PCIE SLOT 2: 8x Atto R380 - Proavio 4 TB EB8MS running on RAID 0
PCIE SLOT 1: 8x NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500

Will this setup work?

HI Brian, nice config indeed!.. the issue here is that you need to KNOW what PCI-E arrangement you have in your MAC PRO for this. You said OLDER macs.. which one particularly.

The PCIE arrangement on older macs as you have described I don't think is possible x8,x8,x4,x4 ??? . (see Expansion Slot Utility.app).

There will have to be at least a x1 lane slot there somewhere in the older MACs.. In that case you might want to NOT use SOME OTHER ATTO EXPRESSES HBA for the HP LTO4 ULTRIUM SAS tape drive rather than the expensive ATTO TECH R380.

In this case in you configuration you may want to checkout the ATTO TECH H380 EXPRESS (SAS HBA ONLY) for the tape drive. I believe it is a lot cheaper. You can run it in a x! slot . I have done this as a test for my R380 with a Ultrium LTO4 HP 1840 tape drive ONLY attached to it. (no disk)

Also, there are other options forthe RAID CARD for the PROAVIO EB8MS for the MAC PRO such as ARECA HBA these are really cheap and work well..

Like yourself, I use the ATTO TECH EXPRESS R380 fo the EB8MS for both RAId0 ( 2 x 4ddms) and sometimes the HP SAS tape drives. ti works just wonderfully.

workflow considerations: Initially I used a 8 x DDMs (8 x 1TB = 8TB) in the PROAVIO EB8MS JBOD enclosure to get a single RAID0 @ 8TB however I found that I really needed a more flexible arrangement so I split it into 2 x 4 DDms as 2 x (4 x 1TB RAID0 luns) RAID0's. THis way I can dismount one of the RAID0 luns and plug in another SAS tape drive into the ATTOTECH R380!

Again look at what HBA you can use in the x1 lane PCI slot.

Lastly I am not sure what impact the x8 SLOT has your FX4500 for your Graphics work . Other may comment. FWIW I ran my ATI 1900 in slot 1 x8 and I could not see any different (SHAKE, MOTION , FCP, MAYA) on my  30inches ACD... maybe my eyes are too shot these days!

hth

w

 

[Brian Langeman]

Thanks for the advice warwickt. It definitely seems wiser to go for a cheaper SAS HBA card for the LTO drive. I have already checked the Expansion Slot Utility, and I'm running it on 2 4 lanes and 2 8 lanes to check the video I/O card and graphics card running lower than their maximum slots. Seems to be working alright so far.

There is an option of 3 8 lanes and 1 single lane though. I might do that if the LTO drive only needs 1 lane. That's a pretty good idea, splitting the array into 2 4TB drives so you can unplug one of the SAS cables when needed. I think I'm going to only keep it as 1 drive for better organization on large projects though. Also, the whole point for me wanting an 8 drive array is for the extra speed from 8 drives in a RAID 0 rather than only 4.

I use Shake a lot, and I don't think the graphics card running on 8 lanes will affect that too much because shake processes the node tree all through CPU power. But Motion might be affected more by it, cause it heavily relies on the graphics card.

 

[warwickt]

Thanks for the advice warwickt. It definitely seems wiser to go for a cheaper SAS HBA card for the LTO drive.

Hi Brian, for the LTO4 ULTRIUM tape drive you would be very safe in using only the ATTOTECH ExpressSAS H380 Host Adapter PCIE HBA. It has two SFF-8088's on it and is far less price than the raid version R380. I would not chance any other SAS HBA from any other vendor for LTO4 SAS tape drives at this stage.

yeah.. worth a look

LSI do not support MAC OSX10 ( I own one of these too). ATTO TECH Certainly do support MACOSX !. There was an update even yesterday for the firmware & MAC OSX drivers.

I have already checked the Expansion Slot Utility, and I'm running it on 2 4 lanes and 2 8 lanes to check the video I/O card and graphics card running lower than their maximum slots. Seems to be working alright so far.

Yes I would agree with that. I was running x8, x8,x1,8 (config 3) for a while with the R380 in slot 2 and the ATI1900 in a x8 .. seemd to be fine for me then as well.

There is an option of 3 8 lanes and 1 single lane though. I might do that if the LTO drive only needs 1 lane. That's a pretty good idea, splitting the array into 2 4TB drives so you can unplug one of the SAS cables when needed. I think I'm going to only keep it as 1 drive for better organization on large projects though. Also, the whole point for me wanting an 8 drive array is for the extra speed from 8 drives in a RAID 0 rather than only 4.

opinion: SPeed.. well its interesting to see what the speed is that might need. Just a thought. If the 8 x 1TB accross 8 x SAS targets on the R380 should get you in excess of 500MB/sec which is ample for most things , especially capture as you wil be doing by the looks.

HOwever unless you have a similar storage device of that effective speed then you won't be able to utilise his bandwidth across the RAID0. You will find that as the array get full the effective wite speed drops away a bit. Its just seems the way of the controller I guess.

I thought this through myself and realise dthat the flexibility of have TWO logical RAID)'s in the EB8MS works better. In this case you have VERY fast effective speed/band width for moving objects between these two raids and also the flexibility I wrote about earlier dismounting either of them to use the tape drive when you need to. (swapping the SFF-8088s cable in and out). (you save on buying another SAS HBA for the tape drive....)

fwiw: I get over 450MB/sec on either of the 4 x 1TB RAID0s in the EB8MS using the AJA test tool...

The benefit in the 8 x 1Tb case is ofcourse capacity in a single spot. Agree.

I'd expect o be dumping some of my 1TB WD's later this year for stable 2TB versions anyway. Then I can increase the capacity of each RAID0 in the EB8MS (using Ultrium LTO to backup and restore ofcourse).

HTH
w

 

[jeff@uptown6.com]

HI Jeff.. hmm thats a shame. The SONY media is usually OK.

If you are running windah's OS.. you may want to check the QUANTUM TAPE utility and see of the SSA tape drive needs a clean. Maybe this will help.

I use OSx so I cant monitor this on my QUANTUM tape drive.

I use mostly HP ULtrium LTO4 C797A. its fine.. SOny is ok too.

Whats your archive software you are using?

w

Hey Warwickt,

Thanks for your response. I'm running MacOS 10.5.5 - MacPro 2 x 3 ghz dual core intel. I'm using retrospect as my software.

You mentioned that you are able to monitor you Quantum drive. How do you do that?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[warwickt]

Hi Jeff .. well the bummer for the Quantum LTO4 SAS tape drive is that maagement and configuration has to be done from a system using microsoft windah's. THe Quantum took to do this is quite good.

For me on my MACPRO I had to install BOOTCAMP + XP@SP2 on an internal disk drive and THEN configure the HBA and then apply firmware and then run the configuration and monitor application that quantum has. (not simple to do either)

THE tool from Quantum has some test tools and stuff and under windah's is ok but unfortunately not workable under OSX.. a shame really..

HP for their tape drives is rumoured to have a fully working OSX so that's where they are.

hth

w

 

[cosmopost]

ATTO doesn't see the driver

ATTO doesn't see the driver

Hi there. I've read many of your posts regarding setting up LTO-4 backup. And I wanted to ask for some advice.

The atto configuration tool is showing: Driver Name: Unknown: driver not loaded.

I've run the installers, uninstallers, switched the two raid cards slots, etc. all to no avail. Can you offer any advice?


Here's what I have.

HP LTO-4 1840 SAS
ATTO R380 HBA
Tolis Bru-PE
Mac Running 0S-X 10.5.7

Also: High Point Rocketraid 2322, SAS
Proavio Tower with 2 SAS connections, running raid 5
3 internal SATA drives running raid 0
1 internal SATA for the os

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Atto drivers not loading right? Hmmm... I haven't run across that problem before, but it could be a permissions issue or possibly OS install issue. Do you have another HDD you can boot from or do a clean OSX install onto? I would do a clean install and then load the Atto drivers. If that still doesn't work, then it's possible you may have a faulty R380. ...At least that would seem likely if all the other PCIe devices in the system are working. But I would definitely try loading the drivers onto a clean OSX install if possible. It doesn't happen very often, but sometimes a clean install is needed to fix such things and can often be faster than trying to repair manually digging through confing files to try and pinpoint an issue. Could be a conflict btween SAS drivers too.

 

[cosmopost]

Wrong Driver

Wrong Driver

Thank you for your reply Jeff.

As embarrassing as this is, I solved the problem when I discovered I had been trying to load the wrong driver. I ordered an Atto R380 but received an H380. So the whole time I'm trying to load the driver for the R380 and it wasn't working. The supplier sent the H380 I'm sure figuring that it would cover my needs since it was only being used for the LTO, not any additional Raid devices. So far the performance seems fine for my needs so no harm done, and it saved me some money.

I guess I'll know how well it works when my first archive is complete.

Regards and thanks again.

J

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Glad you got it sorted. Yes, if you're just running the LTO off of it, then it's a better deal as it will save you some money. You can also buy a mini-SAS to 4 x eSATA fan-out cable (HighPoint and others make them) and your card will double as an eSATA adapter if you need one. I've put the ATTO H680 in my new Mac Pro and it's great as it's driving my HP 1760 LTO-4 and also serving up 4 eSATA ports.

 

[davidave]

We've just purchased the HP Storageworks 1840 along with the ATTO H680, per the strong recommendations of people here. We've installed the ATTO drivers and the Storageworks shows up as a "Ultrium-4 SCSI" but ATTO shows that the driver for this device is not installed. Is an HP driver for needed for this device?

 

[Steen Dongo]

I can see that a lot of you guys are using standalone drives. Anyone using autoloader libraries with BRU PE ?

Experiences ?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We've just purchased the HP Storageworks 1840 along with the ATTO H680, per the strong recommendations of people here. We've installed the ATTO drivers and the Storageworks shows up as a "Ultrium-4 SCSI" but ATTO shows that the driver for this device is not installed. Is an HP driver for needed for this device?

No driver needed, nor is one specifically available. Support for the drive comes via your archival software. Or at least this is the case with OSX. Some tape systems provide drivers for Windows and there's mixed tape device driver support on Linux.

 

[flaminio]

Just a big thanks to the folks in this forum. I FINALLY got my LTO4 drive today and installed.

I went with the ATTO R380 and HP 1840 on a MacPro with BRU PE. Everything hooked up perfectly, ran the latest updates/firmware, and I'm now backing up my first tape.

The funny part is IT was blocking this order and wanted to charge me $4/GB for NAS. They fought me for six months on this, and no wonder why. I've got at least 4 TB to back up, so in total they wanted like $16,000 per month, not to mention sending it all over 10/100 WAN. LOL.

 

[sebastian toro]

BRU MAC

BRU MAC

is it possible to read the data you backup in MAC with BRU into a PC system?
we are looking for purchase the HP DRIVE / ATTO SAS / BRU MAC solution

I am asking this because we probably provide the service for european customers that will take the tape with them. They use PC in Italy. What they need for read the tape again.

thanks in advance

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Just a big thanks to the folks in this forum. I FINALLY got my LTO4 drive today and installed.

I went with the ATTO R380 and HP 1840 on a MacPro with BRU PE. Everything hooked up perfectly, ran the latest updates/firmware, and I'm now backing up my first tape.

Congrats! Just curious, why the R380 controller? Or do you intend to connect additional RAID storage to the same host?

is it possible to read the data you backup in MAC with BRU into a PC system?
we are looking for purchase the HP DRIVE / ATTO SAS / BRU MAC solution

I am asking this because we probably provide the service for european customers that will take the tape with them. They use PC in Italy. What they need for read the tape again.

Hmm... Not really. But this isn't really be purpose behind LTO storage, nor is it the most efficient way of doing things. I say use the LTO for your own archives. Give data to your customers on hard drives.